The President's Club Annual Gala - "Men Behaving Badly"

x-posts, annie. We're on the same page. I just don't get why some people don't seem to understand about freedom of choice.

I think some people just caught up in their own little bubble of outrage. Either that or they're just argumentative.

Just so, missad.

I may have mentioned before that I hate assumptions.

It is being assumed that all the women were naive innocent young girls (probably students),
it is being assumed that all the men present were dirty old men,
it is being assumed that all the men present acted inappropriately.

Do we know the ages and occupations of all the women employed
Do we know the ages of all the men who were present
Do we know they all acted inappropriately

Not all young women are naive innocents and not all men are lecherous potential abusers and rapists!

That does not in any way excuse or condone the actions of some of the men, nor does it condemn those women who chose to take on the job

Thanks Bridgeit

Old woman

Certainly my view of the situation.

I think we can all agree that women (or men) should not be touched without their say so. That is a basic human right and should not need to be spelled out. If by the time you are a grown up, you don't adhere to those rules, there should be mass outrage/punishment. However, I think men and women should decide how they earn their living and if they want to strip off, exploit their bodies, etc., that should be their choice. Any coercion to make people do things they don't want to do in this area should be stamped upon. On that basis, surely it is problem solved!

The girls who worked for Formula 1 have lost their jobs because some sanctimonious feminists took advantage of one event which we do not know the truth about to complain about the display of legs in Formula 1 events

OldWoman that is very true indeed.

Never assume anything.

and I agree with your post too icanhandthemback.

If you read the article, they were coerced.

I just don't get why some people don't seem to understand about freedom of choice.

Absolutely - isn't that what women have fought for - freedom of choice?

The guests themselves differed from sweet and normal to propositioning their hostesses for sex
Some of the girls went into the event not knowing anything, and others went in with the expectation that they could take advantage and make more money, because they knew that's what the men were looking for.

Certain girls were invited to an 'after-party'
Six student hostesses tell us how they were pressured for sex at a private party after the charity dinner
Some girls who were chosen refused the invite

Coerced so badly that some went back for several years to be hostesses at this event.

All these protestations of 'it was the girl's choice' and, 'they knoew what they were letting themselves in for' don't ring true

From the original article:

The backgrounds of the dozen or more hostesses met by reporters were varied: many were students, hoping to launch careers as lawyers or marketing executives; others juggled part-time jobs as actresses, dancers or models and did occasional hostessing work to make ends meet.

one 19-year-old hostess, recounted a conversation with a guest nearing his seventies: who had asked her, directly, whether she was a prostitute. She was not. “I’ve never done this before, and I’m never doing it again,” she said later. “It’s f***ing scary.”

Another woman, 28, with experience of hostess work, observing the braying men around her said this was significantly different to previous black tie jobs. At other events, men occasionally would try to flirt with her, she said, but she had never felt uncomfortable or, indeed, frightened.

So not all the girls knew what to expect and I suspect that a number were doing it because they needed the money and had little choice, jobs not really being two a penny these days.

And:

The accompanying brochure included a full-page warning that no attendees or staff should be sexually harassed.

Now why would the organisers do that if they didn't know what was likely to happen?

knew

Maizie the article was written by a hostess at the main event - knowing that it was rather sleazy and the men were behaving badly why then did some of the young women choose to go to the after-party? Without coercion?

The accompanying brochure included a full-page warning that no attendees or staff should be sexually harassed.
So why were the suited staff from the agency involved going round urging the girls to 'flirt' with the diners?

And why on earth, if they felt uncomfortable at the main event, would they choose to go on to the party afterwards?

The article, Jalima was written by a reporter for a reputable newspaper, not, as you imply, by a disaffected 'hostess'. It is very common for reporters to go 'undercover' in order to expose bad situations.

So why were the suited staff from the agency involved going round urging the girls to 'flirt' with the diners?

Because the brochure was, presumably, for whitewash purposes only...

annie, I completely agree with everything you and Baggs have posted. It is about obtaining informed information in order to make an informed choice before accepting this or any job. If you ask not only the employer but other sources too and are uncomfortable with the general set up then you have the choice to refuse and should do so, if you feel comfortable, then you are at liberty to accept. I would apply the same criteria to my own granddaughter. I would advise her to think very carefully, and to ask around about what she was planning, (and privately think she was being a rather foolish young woman!) but if she were adamant, so be it, she has freedom of choice exactly like the next person, and I would accept that she is her own person, is over 18 and that because we're related her choices are not necessarily mine. Surely what the suffergettes fought for was for women to have exactly the same rights and freedoms as men which includes what sort of work they choose having had it made crystal clear, as with men, what that work entails and the pros and cons.

Well said niggly

I know quite a lot of GNetters will defend "a woman's right to chose" whether or not to take this kind of job, but ask yourself, would you honestly want your own daughter or grand-daughter doing it (even if she actually wanted to , let alone if she felt she had no choice).

I have three daughters. I honestly don't know how I'd feel about it. The two who are already adults (over 18) wouldn't even have to tell me about it. It's none of my business.

And it's none of my business if the other few billion adult women in the world choose to do this kind of work.

Who these days has no choice about taking a job?

big difference in saying it is the right choice of job to they are free to choose to do this job.

It wouldn't bother me at all. I would rather she was a doctor, but then its her life not mine.
I have a friend who did glamour type work for a while.
It enabled her to go on and train as a social worker a lot quicker than her cleaning jobs ever did. She was lucky to be blessed with looks and brains, and the sense to use both.

Whilst I agree that suffergettes would be very pleased that we are able make our own choices ,I think they would be very saddened that we would choose to use our choices & independence to pander to the same old pathetic,seedy behaviour that some men still choose to display. ( and especially they can still get away with it)