Self Indentitying Women

If a person “thinks”they are a different gender to their biological one, does this not indicate some psychological issue? Is gender a free “choice”? What about other biological givens- a white woman who decided she was black created an an enormous kerfuffle - a man who identified as a 5 year old is deemed to be in need of psychiatric treatment - but a man can decide he is a woman and that’s made perfectly acceptable? I’m not convinced..

If anyone is interested in what the PHE leaflet actually says you can download it here

Information for trans people

Don't believe all this tabloid rubbish.

I also think there's a lot of scaremongering on this thread. Ireland legislated to acknowledge self identification two years ago and just how many cases have you heard of where a man suddenly decides to be a woman to get a job? Or a man who identifies as a woman assaulting young girls in the changing room at a swimming pool?

Personally I think a lot of people are doing a disservice to people who identify as the other sex or as non-binary. For the vast majority of people this is a momentous decision that they make. Most have a long period of counselling first. I also think some posters are unaware that many transgender people do not have reconstruction surgery. There's lots of reasons why they don't have surgery, but that doesn't mean they have not transitioned and they can still apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate making them legally the other sex. You can read about the criteria here

Applying for a Gender Recognition Certificate

Gender is a very complex subject right now and there's a lot of discussion going on. I genuinely believe that within a couple of generations there will be less emphasis on gender in our society and everybody will make their own choices and who knows, they may change their gender at different times in their lives.

In hospitals, & other public places,there is often a single/ disabled/ bigger toilet with wash basin,Perhaps there should be more of those in central public places where the waiting area is in a public place.

Well if that’s the answer, the wrong question is being asked

3 sets of Toilets : Ladies, Gents, ANother

What’s the answer?

grand and that’s exactly the point - women’s voices, opinions, preference being ignored, being dismissed

I heard that in quite a large organisation a memo, went round to all the staff to say that a male was identifying as female and may want to use the ladies loos, and everyone was to make him feel welcome. No thought to whether the female staff wanted to share that space with a man, they weren’t asked. At this place of work there are also gender neutral toilets which he could use.
It seems wrong that the female staff weren’t even asked their opinion, just told to roll out the red carpet!

Should have said likely outcome they will grow up to be women, because of course a small percentage of females will go the other way and identify as male.

Mary, Yes assumed to be female at birth, the outcome being they will grow up to be women, with the exception of a tiny percentage who are born of an indeterminate sex, hermaphrodites, and then I guess it's a waiting game to see how they will define their gender when that becomes more apparent. I was trying to make a distinction between the overall majority of females who identify with the gender they are classified at birth and quaisi "transwoman" who were born male and now identify as female. Biology dictates they cannot be real women.

It will be much easier in the future if we don’t identify by being identified, surly the best way forward is to state that we are human beings (allegedly)of no determinate sex, who may at some stage in the future wish to change our non detriminate state into another non determinate state. We will not answer to-any term that may offend us now or in the future, or in anyway makes us identifiable or be judge to be similar to any other non specific,unidentifiable cells held together by skin , bone &muscle, allowing us , who or what ever we may be, to avoid facing any facts or truths or anything we don’t agree with or wish to hear. In fact we may even agree to disagree that we aren’t actually humans after all !!!

I hope the trans women who get called for cervical screening put the surgeries right, or they might miss a screening test for prostate cancer.

OK TerriBull, could you define exactly which of us are not "Real"? Must have XX chromosomes perhaps? I haven't had mine tested and I would guess most of us haven't. I think you may mean "Assumed to be female at birth", so Intersex people are not "Real" either.

*aspects.

No one is calling a woman who is unable to have a baby not a ‘real’ woman at all. As for being described as black or white context is everything here. I’ve used this example before but if you were designing services for a particular geographical community and wanted input from a representative group of potential service users, it could be very very relevant that you made sure to include white women, black women, older women, younger women, working women, SAHM, trans women and biological women for example.

Idon't know where some posters got the idea that I said women who can't have children are somehow less of a woman, I never said that, if you read all my post, I mentioned the many physical aspets that define the female sex with the caveat "that not all women experience all of those states" Let me reiterate, I do not regard females who have never given birth any less of a woman than those that have.

This "real woman" stuff is very dangerous. Can I say I don't like being called a "White woman"? I'm a "Real woman" - not a black. If that is unacceptable (I hope it is unacceptable!) then I think calling a woman who is unable to have babies "Not real" is just as bad.

Although men maybe regarded as the "main danger" I have heard of some very agresssive lesbians who enjoy beating up their partners. They use ladies loos.
So Terribullwhat about a woman I know who had cancer at a very young age? She had her ovaries and her uterus removed and needs constant hormone treatment to maintain her health. She will never have children.

Sorry meant to add, the lists are computer generated and so that is why they are called

I’d read that these men are called for screening because on the surgery data base they are identified as women. You’d think that it would be possible to tweak this wouldn’t you but the RTAs would probably call that discrimination.

So why are the men being called? To make them feel included? If you have a cervix and screening is available it should be available. I don’t know, common sense goes out the window sometimes.

I agree absolutely that the issue is about women's rights. But to focus on reproduction as defining what a woman is is not helpful. Terribull said show me a woman who hasn't experienced at least a couple of those things. So I did.

“Not all...”

And the stupid stupid politicians of all parties that are pandering to this group

If you had read all of TerriBull’s post Eglantine21, you would have seen that she qualifies her statement by saying “No all women will experience all of those states...”.