Self Indentitying Women

Primrose65, you are right that the 'men' they talking about are those who have been through all the processes and are now recognised as female. It is a long and arduous business. You can't just pop into your local political party and self identify as a woman. The way it is put over in the press is very misleading. Of course, whether these people are as good at arguing for women's rights etc as biological women is another debate altogether.

I disapprove of the freedom for a man to decide he is a woman and be accepted in women's changing rooms or being Included in an all female selection short list

No pun intended with the ‘ topic in hand ‘comment’ !

Annibach, I did not say I approve or disapprove of either.I was commenting about the topic in hand & the way of the world & how things are evolving . What I disapprove of is anyone male or female having to do anything against their wishes.

Male midwives are qualified and I doubt they claim to be a woman

In the swimming pool at our local leasure centre no male is allowed in the female changing room yet Bridgeit you wouldn't approve of a man in a suit walking in but you have no problem with a man who claims to be a woman ,but isn't, being in the female only changing room?

Well I guess in time humans will all be hermaprodites & androgynists. ?

The Labour Party has suspended members for protesting about this already. I don't think the Conservatives have, but would be happy to be corrected there.

I don't think the argument is about the capability to perform in a role - funnily enough men have far more experience in leadership, being MPs etc than women.

'Women only' programmes are designed to redress the balance.

The question for me is about quotas mollie.

This issue is not party political. it is this current Conservative Government who are reforming the Gender Recognition Act to make it easier for people to be treated as the gender they choose to be.

The Act does not have any caveats about what job someone should be allowed to do, once they have self identified.

I know there is some concern about some men who will use these rights to their own advantage, but let's not start saying that some people should not be able to do some jobs until we have seen any evidence that they are doing the job badly.

There was probably some concern at the time about men becoming midwives, but that has turned out to be fine.

What’s the problem with women’s loos. Women use cubicles which seems no different from anyone using a bathroom in a normal house. Changing rooms in a gym or swimming pool might be different.

I didn’t hear the interview so what was the context? Was the question about use of gender specific facilities or women only quotas?

So a man can self-identify as a woman so that he gets an easy run onto an all female short list to be selected for a seat.

If a woman self identifies as a man would she be excluded from such a list or would she stay on because biologically she is still a woman.

Why are we always hearing about men self identifying as women and very few (any?) women identifying as male. How would men feel about women identifying as men using their loos?

Ok, sorry, so the concern is that a man dressed & behaving like a man can please himself if he chooses to use the ladies toilets just by saying ‘ don’t worry girls I identify as a woman’ . Well if he was dressed & behaving like an ordinary man then no I would not be very happy to meet him in the ladies loos.

I don't think the behaviour of people during their use of toilets is the issue at all!

It's about women's rights.

All women shortlists are designed to increase the number of women MPs.
The Jo Cox programme is for experienced women members who are ready to lead in the Labour Party.

If you have transitioned, you are a woman. I have not seen any arguments against women (who have transitioned) applying for these positions.

Men who 'self-identify' as women are not women in my opinion, and should not be allowed to take the place of women on programmes designed to advance women.

I don't think this debate is about transitioning.
It's about self-identification.

My understanding is transitioning is a process, it has a start point and an endpoint. It's medical, emotional, physical ...... it's a huge undertaking.

Self-identification is an event. Someone simply has to say 'I am a woman'.

Apologies in advance if I've omitted salient points about transitioning.

Well I suppose you would have to arrive at the conclusion that any person who enters a female toilet & susquently behaves in an inappropriate manner, then they would be reported & be answerable to & dealt with by the appropriate authorities.

So a man who self identifies as a woman should be employed in work which would involve access to girls changing rooms ?

Is transitioning trouncing the rights of half of the population...???

If they can do the job they are paid to do & are not on a mission to convert everyone to transition, then I cannot see any problem, at the end of the day we are all just human beings. Trying to do some good for the world we live in far out weighs for me how a person chooses to identify .

This has not be put to the party members , yet he stresses how he listens to members . It is not the position of the Labour Party it is the position of Corbyn and the Momentum controlled NEC