WW2

My grandfather, who had fled the murderous Russian progroms, was married with a young family by the time of Cable Street. He did not see humour in the Mosely blackshirts either. In his mind this was terrifying violent history repeating itself. Of course, we now know, much worse was to follow.

"He commented that Mosely didn't succeed because of the British sense of humour and the fact that most people thought the Blackshirts and their uniforms were terribly funny."
I don't think people living in the east End of London in those days would agree,*Deedaa*.
My FiL, a Jew, was dragged unwillingly by his father to watch when there was a violent confrontation, the Battle of Cable St, between Mosely and his gang and the Police.
The most frightening experience of his life, no-one was laughing then.

A few days ago I caught a bit of Andrew Marr's Making of Modern Britain. He was showing us film of the riots caused by Mosely and his Blackshirts marching through London. He commented that Mosely didn't succeed because of the British sense of humour and the fact that most people thought the Blackshirts and their uniforms were terribly funny. I wonder if the same would hold good today?

Good point, Maizie - I had heard about the Enabling Act, it was at the back of my mind when our present govt. wants
to by-pass Parliament. Almost too frightening to think about.

choose

Given that this thread has opened up can I say what occurred to me when the topic was first raised?

One of the main reasons that Nazis could take control of Germany prior to WW2 was the passing of the Enabling Act, 1933, which gave the German Cabinet (equivalent to the UK Cabinet) powers to make and carry out laws without consulting their Parliament (the Reichstag). The proposed EU Withdrawal Act gives the same powers to our present government by way of the Henry VIII powers. If this is not curtailed or driven down by amendments to the Bill now in Parliament it will enable the government to completely bypass Parliament, not only for matters pertaining to the Act but in any other matter they might chose as it is not time limited or limited to EU withdrawal matters.

I hope I need not remind people that under our constitution Parliament is sovereign, not the Executive (the government, which acts on behalf of the monarch) and that our forebears fought a bloody civil War and executed a monarch in order to establish this.

silverlining's reminder of the Stamford experiments should warn us about the very slippery slope we might be standing at the top of.

I agree with gracesgran’s post. I cant do links ( sorry) but would recommend seeking out the US stamford university student experiments from the 50’s i think which had to be ended early due to excessive cruelty by one group of students to another group. Given the right , or rather wrong, conditions, mans inhumanity to others is never very far from the surface.

Good reply, Graces Gran it opens up the subject further than my current thinking.
My Dad served in WW2, TG he returned, but had a lifelong hatred of the German nation, which I tended to follow. My younger sister was born just after the war and disagreed with Dad - huge arguments and fallings-out about it. She studied German and went to live there for a while. Eventually I realised my view was too narrow and have read more about the subject.
As someone else said , our History curriculum only went up to WW1.
Many people in Germany fell into this trap because they were weakened economically and idealistically, so we other nations should learn from this when choosing our leaders.
Perhaps too much to hope for.

This was a movement that had picked up followers all round the world. Germany had been left in such a precarious position after WW1 that whoever promised them a miracle to change their lives and offered it in a manner they found charismatic might well have found a large following.

We are seeing it happen all round the world once again and what the "charismatic leaders" are suggesting may well be worse than what people have now. However, those feeling tired and disenfranchised sometimes allow themselves to believe that even if the ideology has it's down side they may still be better off than they are, sadly.

People will always reach for the easy option especially if it gives an easily identifiable group you can blame. If we think that only the Germans could have remained silent when they should have spoken out, followed when they should have reasoned and behaved in ways we find hard to accept they could toward other human beings then we have learned nothing.

The starting point of the events leading to WW2 would be the end of WW1. Many Germans felt their Govt. should not have surrendered and that the terms of the surrender were humiliating. This led to the creation of militaristic, nationalist groups, including the Nazi party. Things developed from there, ultimately, as Mazie said, driven by Hitler’s territorial ambitions over Slavic land in Eastern Europe

I don't think it was exclusively the drive towards the Aryan 'Master race' that caused the war; it was Hitler's territorial ambitions in Europe.

I'm afraid I've never 'done' the causes of WW2 in History, school went no further than WW1 and uni was 18th and early 19th C. so I'm a bit hazy on it all. Looking forward to hearing a more informed version...

definately Nazi's ,if they hadn't led the bias against ...well just about everybody except white blond Germanic types there would have been no need for a war

Thanks for the replies - I asked because I don't agree with the statement. From what I've read a large part of the German population didn't agree with Naziism, but most were forced into serving one way or another.
It doesn't seem right to tar all Germans with the same brush.
Maizie I called it WW2 because there isn't a heading for history topics.

When enough of the population is seduced by what they think are valid policies from politicians and the msm they may well make ill-founded decisions which in the longer term prove harmful.
Parallels?

I would think the answer to your first question is yes, the topic is about Germany and the Nazis.

#thereisalwaysone!

Am I allowed to draw parallels with our current government's actions or does the OP want this topic confined to German Nazis?

(Why was it given 'WW2' for its title?)

Not all German people were Nazis but the people in power were. The German people were seduced with ideas of making Germany great again (hmm wonder if that's where a certain POTUS might have got his ideas). The Nazis didn't introduce all their policies straight away. They drip fed them into society until it was too late. They had the power and controlled every aspect of people's lives. Now they could rule by consensus or by fear....it didn't matter anymore about what ordinary people thought. Fear kept people quiet. They kept their heads down and hoped to keep out of trouble. Children were brainwashed in school and youth groups and became the Nazi spy in every home. Then war was declared. Conscription came in. Men went to the front and were subject to military discipline. Women were left behind to keep the home front......just like in Britain.

Imagine you were a German in the late 1930s and your Jewish neighbour was being taken away. Would you have intervened or would fear have made you keep quiet?

Well, the Nazis were German ( some Austrian!!) but it was the Nazi Party. plenty of German people were happy to go along with it ( and some still are) but others were uneasy, and yet more opposed them until it became impossible to do so.