Something rotten?

1960s - not all in the same year!

Women were expected to leave the table after dinner to 'powder their nose' and let the men have 'proper conversations' with port and cigars...
DH and I were invited to a few FM dinners years ago (1960)
(although he wasn't a FM a member of his family was) and they were nothing like that hilarious view.

I’ve just checked with my resident FM who tells me that masonry only became so secretive earlier this century when it was felt that Hitler was taking too much interest in identifying FMs with a view to cleansing the world of them.

Seems there is still some need for members to be circumspect?

Interestingly GN doesn’t publish a list of members or reveal who is hiding behind a username for privacy. Thank goodness we can all have a forum and meeting place where we can be open with each other and maintain our privacy!

jura, you are being rude about members of my family.

And you started by implying that fm were evil and plotted between themselves but won't say what they are plotting. Now it seems the worst you can come up with is that they are boring and misogynistic - neither of which fits the people I know who are Masons.

If its all secret, how does anyone on the outside know what goes on?

Just like this ...

youtu.be/LS37SNYjg8w

which of course it totally separate from the main point about affiliation being compulsory for those groups. Last post on the subject from me.

I am so sorry, but I am not being rude about any member of any family. I am saying that senior members of official bodies, Councils, GVT, police, judiciary- should declare affiliation.

Yes, Anno- totally separate of official FM meetings- attending any function or dinners with mainly FMs was excruciating. Just like the sketch re the dinner party and the 'wife who dares having an opinion'... Women were expected to leave the table after dinner to 'powder their nose' and let the men have 'proper conversations' with port and cigars...
and couldn't see anything 'wrong' with it.

My ex was persuaded by friends to join the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes - a 'fraternal organisation' founded in 1822. I don't think he ever found out what they did, because he took me along to a 'ladies night' which was so horrendously patronising that even he was shocked. I informed him that I'd never go near them again and, fortunately, he couldn't disagree. It was a few years later that he became 'ex'.

From the website:
Every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others and behave with kindness and understanding to others.
Freemasons are taught to practice charity, and to care, not only for their own, but also for the community as a whole, both by charitable giving, and by voluntary efforts and works as individuals.
Freemasons strive for truth, requiring high moral standards and aiming to achieve them in their own lives.

I've just done as Day6 did and googled 'Masons' and our County.
There is a full list of names and then a fairly in-depth history including photos, area where each member lives, their career history and Masonic history on each of the executivesw. Nothing secretive at all in fact.
There is also a lot of information on the charities they support which include cancer charities, a charity to help seriously ill children achieve their dreams and wishes, a charity in aid of a local child who needs life-changing surgery in America etc.
Events include a Burns Supper, a Quiz Night - they don't sound too sinister.

It all sounds laudable and not at all secretive to me.

"And being rude about members of my family, no doubt family members of other gns and quite a few friends and acquaintances."
Me too Kitty - it's hurtful. If you had known my dear PGF, he was the gentlest, kindest man you can imagine.

"So why not declare affiliation then? For senior judiciary, police and business contracts. So so simple, not? Why do they refuse to declare? I've never known anyone from Rotary, Lions or Roundtable refuse to declare affiliation- so why not FM?"

Are you saying Jura that you KNOW of masons in high office/responsible positions in the world of work who refuse to declare their membership?

Three things.

a) Are they obliged to?
b) What are their transgressions?
b) If you are so enraged by it why don't you become a whistle-blower?

And being rude about members of my family, no doubt family members of other gns and quite a few friends and acquaintances.

So why not declare affiliation then? For senior judiciary, police and business contracts. So so simple, not? Why do they refuse to declare? I've never known anyone from Rotary, Lions or Roundtable refuse to declare affiliation- so why not FM?

Day6 - one reacts to what we know and how we know it- not from Google. You'd be amazed at some of the professions and links.

As a matter of interest I typed in freemasons and 3 different UK counties. It was random. I got sites and information. Here for example is the agenda of one of them.

www.northumberlandmasons.org.uk/

Iura, far from being shrouded in secrecy, as far as I can see it gives lots of information and dates of meeting and provide pictures of masons too. It also outlines past events and has a calendar listing all happenings for the year, with links. The site also has a link for would-be members.

I think you may be scaremongering, or over reacting.

I should add that the chap I know is a Liberal Democrat and has long been regarded by the other (reactionary) club members as their token leftie.

He says he lives in hope of making them see the light.

I know someone (a man) who has been attending monthly meetings (during the winter months only) of a "gentlemens' dining club" for forty years and never invited his wife along.

He doesn't do funny handshakes, never wears any kind of pinny, even for washing up, and doesn't seem to have gained any social or pecuniary advantage from his membership.

It's not the Presidents Club, the Rotary, Lions or the Bullingdon Club and they never seem to raise any money for good works or good deeds.

Sometimes his wife has wondered whether he has a fancy woman, but she would have to be quite undemanding, only seeing him about seven times a year.

He tells his wife that they always eat steak and kidney
pudding (except for the one vegetarian member who has something different) and then they discuss the topic of the day.

Most of them seem to be retired admirals or bishops or captains of industry and even though the chap I know is getting on a bit he says he is still one of the younger members. Apart from the steak and kidney pudding nights, they only seem to meet at funerals.

Do you think his wife should gatecrash the next event? There might be something sinister going on.

But jura I would not be happy if you just turned up and listened to my lunches out with friends!! That doesn't mean we are plotting dark deeds.

Could you just walk in and listen or take part? as you could with all the others?

A quick google search shows the dates and times of Lodge meetings in my town.

Good point jura2 .

Could you please send me the list of your local members then, and the time and date of their meetings, please.

I can do that with our local Rotary Club, Lions and Catholic services and Catholic tax payers.

"Freemasonry- which is all kept secret".
I don't think you're right about this. My PGP was quite open about it, and there's plenty about it on the internet.
I think there are some historical links with stonemasons, and even the building of the Hebrew temple in Jerusalem.

The father of DS's partner has suggested that he should join 'the Lodge'. DS would never contemplate it! I think there are strong links between the Orange Lodge and the Freemasons in Northern Ireland.

Everyone knows when Mass is held, who the Catholic Priests are, and the congregation is open to all. Meetings and members lists for Rotary, Lions, Round Table, etc- are public. Of course membership has influence, same as being a member of a family, or community.

But this is totally different to Freemasonry- which is all kept secret- and where they swear to help each other over any other considerations- even the Laws of the country. So I'd repeat, members of the Judiciary and Police, especially at senior level- should be declared. I've known several Senior Circuit Judges who were Masons, and Police. And those who bid for large Council and GVT contracts should be declared too. But many other professions (and some would be surprised which)-are, in some areas more than others, ruled by Masons- and where promotion and Seniority, or even appointment, is direclty linked to Masonry.