Something rotten?

Quite Monica. Although it doesn’t make it right, whatever the herd concerned is.

So very true MOnica

These special interest, special help groups have always existed one way or another and always will. I am a catholic and in my grandparents time one catholic always by preference put business another catholics way if possible and would use contacts within the parish or other catholic group to help someone in trouble. In places like London, there were a lot of catholic policemen. My grandmother always insisted on a catholic doctor. That sort of behaviour still applies in other ethnic and religious groups where they feel they are discriminated against minority, which catholics were.

I think we have all heard or know of people who seem to be teflon coated where the police are concerned, and yes, some are masons, but some are linked by their being members of the same golf club or other 'mates' groups. the herd instinct is always with us and many groups still instinctively protect and favour each other.

I have always wanted to know what this 'handshake' is so that I can startle some unsuspecting male one day with it.

If anyone knows, please tell - you can pm me if it's a secret!

Jura - "Won't say more here- but anyone who thinks they are just doing charity work is seriously deluded."

Oh, so you have inside knowledge then Jura?

Please tell us what else goes on to justify your concerns.

<imagines satanic rites>

Thank you for your reply kitty- as said, I was not asking - just wondering. A very good reason indeed.

And I will leave it at that.

It wasn't anything secret jura.

I'm not sure it's anything to do with you or the thread but DH was invited to join on many occasions by his partners. As we effectively had a lodge of our own at home he didn't really have the time.

Don't tell her, Kitty

As a matter of interest, did your grand-father, father, brother and sil ever discuss FM matters with you and your mother?
They rarely do.

Won't ask here, as it is too personal, but why did you OH not join himself- with such a family tradition?

I make comments with what I know- both here, and in UK- that is all one can do.

Nor am I jura. And I still maintain you made huge sweeping statement.

not talking about London.

My relatives would not be part of anything you couldn't post on here, jura! It's as NFK says, maybe in London or other big cities but that is HUGE sweeping statement.

so was mine- again and again- as retiring colleagues meant key business links were broken- yes, thank goodness he declined.

Won't say more here- but anyone who thinks they are just doing charity work is seriously deluded.

My DH was “invited” to join a few times by a couple of people within the business community. Thankfully he declined.

They’re all as “Bent as a ten bob bit” (not my words).

My ex neighbour was stopped and arrested for being 3 times over the drink drive limit on a very busy road in the town. Both he, his father and grandfather were Masons. It never went any further and he was released without charge. Apparently his specimen given at the station “went missing” .This is not a story that has been exaggerated either. His wife at the time (now ex) was my best friend and he knew that he would get off with it.

For the origin of Panjandrum see the Wikipedia entry about Samual Foote, Jalima.

Perhaps it depends on the Lodge? One in an influential city like London with member in who're in positions of great power isn't in the same league as one in a small seaside town like Wells in Norfolk. There's one in our little town and no one seems to be secretive about being a member - probably because it's in a prominent position and comings and goings are very obvious. It just seems to be a men's club. They may well look after their own though. Difficult to tell. When does giving a job to a mate turn into having to give a job to someone in the same club as you?

I do remember an old friend, now deceased, who always put Mason business before all else. When asked to an occasion he really, really wanted to attend it was turned down as Mason business called. They ruled his life.

What’s with all the rolled up trouser legs, leather aprons, funny handshakes and militaria? How do we know it’s not a bit dodgy? If it’s all so wholesome why the secrecy?

Oh Lordy. My father, grandfather, brother and lovely father in law were all masons!

Panjandrum ?
Is that like the Head Boy?

The Vehmgericht, the Illuminati, the Priory of Sion, even the Presidents Club, all gone. Are the Freemasons all we have left to hook our conspiracy theories on?

I think the Duke of Kent was the UK Grand Master, Panjandrum or whatever for many years; knowing that, how could anyone take them seriously?

* Wally* about 20 years ago I used to cook the meals for DH's lodge. One month they had the Provincial Grand Master attending so I cooked a really nice meal and served it up when they had finished their meeting. He asked me where I was eating and I told him I'd be out in the kitchen. He said that was silly, I must come and eat with them - so I did!

And there are still ‘bent coppers’ who are not Masons as well.
Making a conspiracy theory about Masons seems a waste of time.

Is membership of the Freemasons so secret? I can remember as a child hearing people talked of quite openly as being Freemasons. DH's grandfather was a Freemason, as were most of the trades and professional men in the small town where he lived. There was nothing very secret about their Freemasonry. I have known some very nice and admirable men who were Freemasons.

I quite accept that some Lodges could have turned toxic and could be a course of concern, but we must be careful about interpreting the past from our current moral high ground. Had the Lodge DH's grandfather belonged to been doing each other favours, then would it have been any different if there had been no Lodge, my recent experience of the way tradesmen in small towns still befriend each other and push work and favours around each other suggests not.

I think some attribute more to the Masons than is actually there.