Male staff in women's refuges?

Really interesting post G23. Re your last point however ( and I mentioned the issue on a previous thread) if a SI transwoman were allowed to apply and didn’t get the job, the TRA movement would have the organisation in court in the blink of an eye. Very very scarce resources would be used up in legal vista or in buying off the applicant. But even worse, it would send a terrible message re the rights of biological women.

"relationship which developed between a Refuge Worker and a woman in the refuge"

I actually think that was not okay, "under wraps" or not. Very nice that they're happy, tho.

I agree Far - if Reguge Workers were regulated, like social workers, that behaviour might lead to being struck off

The refuge worker completely overstepped her professional boundary am surprised and disappointed to hear that

I think that only women ( who really are women) should work in this area, however if viewing yourself as a woman ever becomes ‘law’ as it were, then the refuges could find themselves in trouble for discrimination for not employing them.It’s a slippery slope that we should not be going down in this country.I hope that women speak up!

I can see all all points of view but ...
If the fear of encountering a male either for herself or her children stops even one woman seeking refuge then then for me I would say No to any person born as a male.

This is sad,

But the vulnerable must be priority.
Especially when children are involved.

Scotland are already holding a consultation about gender recognition whilst this is still at pre consultation stage in the rest of the UK. If the Scottish government decides to accept self identification then it is likely that anyone accepted under those terms in Scotland would also have to be accepted in the rest of the UK, even if UK law hadn't been amended. You can contribute to the Scottish consultation via Fair Play for Women

I am in full agreement with every point Granny23 made.
Particularly men or woman trying to infiltrate organisations to get access to vulnerable people.

It really happens. Peodophile staff, usually men, recruited their friends as staff.

All those nice men working in children's homes who were sexually abusing children in their care. The scale on which that was happening was truly awful

I would not like the idea. Yes we know many men are not wife abusers but women in Refuges need the security and peace of mind.
If women and their children in refuges are still very traumatised it will take a long time for them to trust any male. Transgendered or not.

You don't have to live in Scotland to contribute to the consultation.
It ends on 1 March, so not a lot of time left.

Here is a link to it -

consult.gov.scot/family-law/review-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004/

Hypothetical situation :

Suppose there was a charity supporting children and young people who have had abusive, traumatic upbringings.

And suppose I wanted to work or volunteer there but I was told it could be upsetting for some of those young people, during the time they were receiving help from the charity, to have some of that help provided by an older person.

I would realise that was no fault of mine but I wouldn't expect to have a "right" to work there regardless.

I should have made it clearer that there was nothing 'unprofessional' going on in the refuge. The pair though attracted to each other (which was discussed in a workers support session), only became close friends, then 'girlfriends', then a couple long AFTER the woman had left the refuge. You have to understand that 30+ years ago it was often said that refuges were run by 'big, butch, man hating Lesbians' which was far from the truth, but enough to put many women off seeking help from WA.

FarNorth hits the nail on the head with her example, Someone who is more concerned about their own 'rights' rather than the rights and needs of the vulnerable is not a suitable person to undertake this kind of work.

This is an article about the concerns around transgender women. Regarding women's refuges, let's not forget that 138 women a year are murdered by men. Women are right to be wary of men, given that there is no way to distinguish between the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'.

leyaterra.wordpress.com

Maryeliza's comment about women only services being targeted by trans activists is very worrying indeed. It has already happened at the women only swimming pool in London (Hampstead?). If a man wishes to transition then surely he would undergo the operations & hormone treatments. If he just wants to self-identify as a woman but retain all the physical attributes of a man then he is a man. It is beyond satire that there are men who retain beards, penis & all yet state they have the right to be treated as women. It's a disgraceful joke.
And as for women in refuges - they need protecting - and all workers should be women - completely & biologically. Any man who doesn't understand that lacks the empathy required & is not suited to work in that environment.

Having been in a DV situation but not using a refuge I would want to be in a woman only environment until I felt strong enough to be in normal living conditions in society
It’s is not acceptable to have transgender males in refuges Im afraid it is too open to abuse
Oldmeg I have to totally disagree with you, it’s seems obvious you have never been frightened to your core by a strong powerful man There is plenty of time for women to meet and learn about gentle kind men but not when they are torn in shreds both mentally and physically they need to know they are safe from ALL men at that point of time, reintroduction can come later when they learn to trust again

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I didn’t say anything about meeting and greeting oldmeg

I m sorry your Mum had to live through abuse and of course in an emergency situation like that a man in the shape of a relative neighbour or police can be the saviour but in the situation of trying to build up a woman’s confidence to face life again she needs to feel very safe and unthreatened
No I don’t think I m the only one, after working ten years with survivors sadly I know how common it is, I was only answering the information you had supplied in your post not anything to do with your life or your knowledge of the situation, but simply your words
I don’t disagree that a good kind man will gradually help a woman but not at the time she is running for her life

OM I don’t think anyone is saying that their experiences are the only ones with any validity but I think that people who have experienced DV should be listened to and their views taken into account. Village hobbies and ndns don’t really cut it do they in today’s society - and I would bet my bottom dollar that the typical village bobby never arrested the violent man and gathered evidence that a crime was committed - the general police view then ( and for some it still is, that it was only a domestic). Refuges are generally small with a small pool of staff - it would be impossible for a traumatised woman to avoid a trans women member of staff - and why should she have to live in fear of bumping into one? Of course she could avoid the risk ny not going to the refuge in the first place I suppose.

Hobbies= bobbies

Lots of ‘buts’ as in ‘yes, but’ in there BB and maryeliza and in fact you’d have lost your ‘bottom dollar’.

BB until my last post I had supplied no information for you to ‘answer’.

"And as for women in refuges - they need protecting - and all workers should be women - completely & biologically. Any man who doesn't understand that lacks the empathy required & is not suited to work in that environment "

Exactly that.

Women don't stay in refuges for long. It's a place of safety helping them to get out of a horrendous situation.
Surely it's not too much to ask that they don't have to engage with men while there.

If a man wishes to transition then surely he would undergo the operations & hormone treatments. If he just wants to self-identify as a woman but retain all the physical attributes of a man then he is a man. It is beyond satire that there are men who retain beards, penis & all yet state they have the right to be treated as women. It's a disgraceful joke.

I couldn’t agree with you more dbDB77 . They are my feelings exactly.

So your father ended up in prison for DV - well that’s great but at the time of village bobbies that would not be representative of most DV cases - rape in marriage wasn’t a crime.

Sorry oldmeg I ve no idea what the first sentence means and your second sentence is exactly my point you hadn’t given any information, just a vague it could be a good experience which I was trying my best to answer

I think the majority of people on here are in total agreement that a woman fleeing from domestic violence needs the calmest, safest of places to try to recover in and that doesn’t include being in the company of men or men waiting to trans into women (who have probably got enough problems of their own to get through anyway)

A sudden though this morning - What about a trans or SI woman who has been subjected to Domestic Abuse? Should they be admitted to a WA refuge?

I pose the question to illustrate the complexities of the decisions that have to be made often in the middle of the night by WA workers.

Or try this scenario which we used in 'on Call' training.

A lesbian couple have a fight which results in one being injured. The Homeless department requests refuge for one woman and minutes later the Police phone from the Hospital requesting refuge for the (slightly) injured one? What do you do?

Re transwomen and DV - they can bloody well do what women did in the 60s - campaign for, fundraise, organise their own refuges - the TRA are damn good at organising their onslaughts on biological women’s hard won rights so they can now turn their talents to organising this. Re the lesbian couple, all I would suggest is the one with the greatest need is admitted ( not that I’m saying that would be necessarily an easy choice) and that the other go back to the house or be found a hotel - don’t shout at me if these are silly ideas.