Jeremy Paxman says 'no votes for pensioners'

GG

"You choose to use it because you want to feel you are being attacked in some way when people are talking about facts and statistics. "

I don't feel I am being attacked by anybody, I don't play the victim card as many do!

I have stated my opinion and I remain of the opinion there is a faction who by using a persons educational status feel some should not have been given the right to vote.

I am intrigued by the clap trap of that opinion because I am an example of where that mantra can be challenged.

I had a fairly poor education so that would imply to those who repeat/regurgitate the ' so called ' factual evidence Leavers were more likely to come from an uneducated background I voted Leave. I would be unable because of my lack of education to make a reasoned / informed decision .

It's not only patronising it is quite worrying there are so many people who would find a persons education to be a criteria when it comes to a democratic vote.

I don't understand, Monica. Maizie doesn't want the over 65s to be denied the vote.
Paxman being educated and showing the quality of his reasoning which informs his decision has nothing to do with whether we are denied the vote.
Actually, if he thinks over 65s should be denied the vote, he needn't vote himself the next time there is an election or referendum.
He can start with the local elections this year, and explain to his heart's content why he didn't. Those who did vote can just smile indulgently at him.

What has education got to do with having a democratic vote?

It has nothing at all to do with it, but it has a lot to do with the quality of the reasoning which informs the vote.

Maizie how can you write the above with a straight face, when the idea of denying the franchise to those over 65, came form the very well educated and erudite Jeremy Paxman.

Grumppa I see what you are saying but there is some evidence that some of the people mentioned are in a position to make a lot more money in the 'rules off' society they seem to expect to achieve if we leave the EU. Perhaps that is what Varian meant (?)

What has education got to do with having a democratic vote?

Nothing directly. When did I say it had?

'Less educated' has a different meaning to uneducated and I don't really care if you chose to use that word that was not what the statistics were saying. You choose to use it because you want to feel you are being attacked in some way when people are talking about facts and statistics.

How have I proved your point? In fact what point have I proved other than that the 'statistics' where not being horrid and nasty to the poor old leave voters they were just being statistics.

I accept that some well educated people voted Leave to protect their own wealth, as I am sure did many Remainers. The desire to protect one's wealth is an understandable and almost universal human instinct. The Remainers' principal argument was economic, with a view to protecting the wealth of the many.

What puzzled me was varian's ad hominem suggestion that the Leave voters who did so to protect their wealth at the expense of everyone else included Michael Gove (or, come to that, Boris Johnson or Liam Fox). Their motives may have been partly dictated by naked ambition as well as by the desire that we as a nation should "take back control", but I cannot see that their wealth would have been less protected if the Remainers had won.

There it is again, another contradiction.

You have just used another way of saying what Maizie d?

Some voters are more worthy than others because of their education, their quality of reasoning to inform.

What is that saying, some people should not have the right to vote ?

Paxman said ALL educated/uneducated should not vote over the age of 65.

What has education got to do with having a democratic vote?

It has nothing at all to do with it, POGS, but it has a lot to do with the quality of the reasoning which informs the vote.

GracesGranMK2 Tue 13-Feb-18 19:10:44

"Do you know POGS I still haven't seen anyone call those who voted leave "thick" or "uneducated" except by those who voted leave and are trying to make a point.

It is a fact that statically more older people and more less educated people did vote leave."
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I think you should look at the copious amounts of threads on Brexit GG in that case.

Just because you altered the word from 'uneducated' to 'less educated ' you proved my point.

What has education got to do with having a democratic vote?

A cleaner is just as entitled to a vote as does a Lord or Lady. It appears to me however their are some whose superior belief in their educated worth makes them believe that should not be the case.

Actually the CEO is a she who earned megabucks running a merchant bank, has a London house and a bigger country house, sent her six daughters to private day schools and her three sons to private boarding schools. She is obviously a high achiever and very keen to help to make the rich richer. She is well educated, and so does not fit the poorly educated Leaver stereotype.

Not sure what you are saying Jalima. I don't think, in statistics, there is such a thing as Varian's Rule.

She was simply pointing out some of the exceptions and her views of why that might be. I specifically did not offer an opinion. Yet again we see someone trying to form an insult out of a statistic where it doesn't exist.

There will be more exceptions than that Jalima as the stats do not say that all people who voted remain had higher educational attainment or that all those who voted leave had a lower one. It was just that more people who voted leave had lower educational attainment. As I said, without more research we do not actually know why that was.

Of course, I should hastily amend that - who was this CEO and did she send them to boarding school?

Who was this father and did the mother choose to send them to boarding school?
I wouldn't blame her.

tendencies do not make up a rule to which there could be a few exceptions though.

Not my rule Jalima. The post referendum surveys of who voted which way all showed certain tendencies.

Leave voters tended to be older and less well educated and were more likely to read certain rightwing tabloid newspapers.

But there are always exceptions. Some leave voters did not conform to that stereotype.

That must have been a big bill every year, varian.
I wonder if he got a reduction for so many, or were they in different schools.

But, Gracesgran when varian says this:

There are exceptions to the rule. Some well educated people, eg Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox did vote Leave.

Generally these people have vested interests in protecting their own wealth

then by implication, with a few exceptions such as those named in her/his post and those protecting their own wealth everyone else who voted leave is not well-educated.

According to varian's rule anyway.

There are more than a few exceptions to whatever rule someone decided on!

There are exceptions to the rule. Some well educated people, eg Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox did vote Leave.

Generally these people have vested interests in protecting their own wealth at the expense of everyone else, like the CEO of a merchant bank who was able to afford to send all nine children to private schools.

Do you know POGS I still haven't seen anyone call those who voted leave "thick" or "uneducated" except by those who voted leave and are trying to make a point.

It is a fact that statically more older people and more less educated people did vote leave. Unless you have statistics to show differently of course. However, I am sure many of those who voted leave know that this is just a correlation. It would be interesting to know if lack of education was also a causation. I could guess a few very reasonable reasons why that influence might exist but you would have to do some additional research to find out what they were/are and no reason found would be a slur on the people who are less educated and voted leave. It is just a fact which would give us more insight into why people felt the way they did.

They are sometimes called Health care assistants Jalima1108 and they can progress and do further qualifications if they wish, even do a nursing degree.

Care and support of a non-medical nature is provided by Nursing Auxiliaries who do not have degrees
Are they now known as Healthcare Assistants?

I still think that the SEN nurses with their 2 year college and ward-based training were amongst some of the best, most caring and most practical nurses and their qualifications exceeded those of a Healthcare Assistant.

We do need nurses with degrees yes, but surely there is a need for both?

Does it matter about education when it comes to having a democratic vote?

Does it have a relevance with regard to Paxman saying ALL over 65's should not be allowed to vote?

I don't think it can have missed anybodies attention how 'some' people call those who voted Leave in the EU Referendum thick / uneducated as if they felt they had no right to a vote.

I think Paxman is making the same association in part and I am of the belief so do many others.

Trainee nurses still work on hospital wards. They are expected to know how to use complicated technology, administer drugs and perform some tasks once the job of doctors. This idea that nurses do not need to be well qualified is based on an old regime that no longer exists. Care and support of a non-medical nature is provided by Nursing Auxiliaries who do not have degrees.