Jeremy Paxman says 'no votes for pensioners'

GG

"There is a lot of throwing around of unsubstantiated opinions this morning. Just because they are someone's opinion that doesn't make them a truth."

So will you substantiate your opinion about me Gracesgran because I am awaiting a reply to your post on Thu 15-Feb-18 09:58:29 where you said-

"You are asking us to bet on our very good future against a your fantasy".

I still do not understand what you meant , or shall I assume your opinion was also not based on any truth?

Just putting information on so that anyone else who is interested can look at it, petra.
I would have thought you would like the truth from the Express.
Why does Merkel have to horsetrade with the AfD?

durhamjen
You have no need to educate me in German politics.
There was no need to mention the CDU, everyone knows they are the leading party. The point you chose to ignore is that the AfD has overtaken the SPD who were running second.
Whether she has gone up 2.5% is irrelevant. What's important is, that a relatively young right wing party has attracted so many people.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920981/Germany-poll-latest-AfD-SPD-anti-migration-Angela-Merkel
Merkel is the CDU and has gone up 2.5%. You missed out a bit of your story, petra.

May's trying to hang on to her government. She could lose it this week.

durhamjen
The only difference there, is, the Tories are not trying to form a government, Merkel is. This has to be her worst nightmare, having to horsetrade with the AfD.

And in another poll, Labour have overtaken the Tories again.

I have just read that in a poll the AfD have overtaken the SPD. Merkel must be very. ?

Indeed Maizie - cuts and more cuts- and the gutter press stirring things up, with the help of UKIP and others.

Elections will soon take place in Italy- and fascism is having a huge influence there - again. But as the first port of call for immigration (with Malta)- it is 'easier' to understand.

could it be because people are tired of their concerns being ignored?

But is it the EU that is ignoring concerns or is it domestic governments? It's not as if the EU directs its member's social policies or controls their economic policy. When you look at reasons given for our Brexit vote many of them are grievances which can be laid squarely at the feet of our domestic government and have little to do with the EU. Even that big bugbear, freedom of movement, could have been much better managed had our government applied the EU rules properly. And that allied grievance, supposed pressure on public services by 'immigrants' was caused by cuts in government spending (domestic policy, not EU).

labourlist.org/2018/02/george-osborne-supports-votes-at-16-campaign/

Of course the Greeks voted to remain in - because they knew if they didn't they would be bankrupt. Having said that there is a rise in the support for extreme right wing parties throughout Europe which really worries me, could it be because people are tired of their concerns being ignored? It is possible to be concerned about immigration and the call for a European Army without being racist and xenophobic

The main countries of the EU dare not give their citizens a vote on whether to stay in the EU because they know full well the EU would disintegrate.

Well, Greece did it at the height of their financial problems and the Greeks voted to stay in.

The EU's record on voting is not a good one once they've got the result they want you can be sure they won't allow another one.

And how do they do that, Wally?

If you want an unelected commission making the laws that you live by

The Commission drafts the laws after input from the member states. The decision on whether or not to accept the laws is made by the European Parliament, our elected representative body in the EU. How do you think the UK managed to have a very significant amount of input into EU law?

Funnily enough, a Leaver friend of mine used the 'the UK proposed most of the EU workers' rights and environmental protection legislation' as a reason for us not needing the EU because we were better at those things than the EU!

For the nth time, Wally, the "unelected commission" (your word) does not make the laws. It makes proposals - for regulations, directives, and recommendations - for attaining the objectives laid down in the Treaties. These then go through the European Parliament and ultimately the Council of Ministers.

I wouldn't disagree that the Commission wields too much influence, and that the President of the Commission is often a pain in the neck, but it does not actually make the laws.

I thought Merkel was just looking on in bemusement, waiting for May to tell the EU what she wants. That doesn't sound much like a dictator.

Merkel and Brussels are the dictators.

Where is your proof. What have they actually done that is anti-democratic.

There is a lot of throwing around of unsubstantiated opinions this morning. Just because they are someone's opinion that doesn't make them a truth.

The main countries of the EU dare not give their citizens a vote on whether to stay in the EU because they know full well the EU would disintegrate.

Where is your proof of this?

It's because remainers just cannot accept the result.

That is no answer Wally, just an insult and misinterpretation. I do accept that the vote was a comparatively small majority (in the scheme of referendums) to advise the government that we should leave. I would be completely blind, deaf and stupid if I didn't; it is a fact.

Your interpretation is another Leavers Lie as most people on all sides do accept that was the vote. It is also aggressive attempt by leavers to silence the other half of the country.

So we accept what the outcome of the vote was. So what? That simply does not, has never, and no one has offered one instance when it did, mean I, or anyone else, should not continue to challenge and try and change what is happening because of it. That is democracy.

Your definition seems to be that the outcome of this particular vote - no other vote has every been treated in this way - should never be challenged, could never be changed. That is the dictatorship of the majority not democracy.

Rubbish. Merkel and Brussels are the dictators. A lot of EU countries would vote to leave given the chance.

I watched a programme about Caesar last night; the presenter pointed out that they got rid of Caesar because he had become a dictator and the country had become undemocratic and the result was from then on they had Emperors which were 'for life'. She pointed out that often, in history, when something like that happens it results in something far worse. Couldn't help but find parallels with the referendum result. Be careful what you wish for, she said. Food for thought, methinks.

The main countries of the EU dare not give their citizens a vote on whether to stay in the EU because they know full well the EU would disintegrate.

The only reason Cameron allowed us a vote is because he thought he would win easily and to clip UKIPs wings. The EU's record on voting is not a good one once they've got the result they want you can be sure they won't allow another one. If you want an unelected commission making the laws that you live by then the EUs your baby if not then its not.

"A democracy is not a democracy if you cannot change your mind."

David Davis.

It's because remainers just cannot accept the result. What they want is to keep on having votes until they get the result they want ( pretty much as Ireland was bullied ) and then not allowing another vote ever once they've got it.