Grans Moral Maze

I really don’t have the experience of Icelanders to judge their motivation - I took it at face value that it was child centred. After all I don’t think that making FGM illegal is about wanting to make those groups that practice it unwelcome here - surely it’s about wanting them to change?

Iceland is an underpopulated country which actively welcomes immigrants. On the whole their social attitudes are very progressive. I very much doubt that antisemitism is a factor in this proposal.

Hear hear Iam64!

It never entered my head that Iceland’s proportion shed ban of circumcision of children was in order to deter Muslims or Jewish people from moving to the country. I don’t believe that, I believe the proposal is to protect boys and girls from being mutilated without their informed consent. I appreciate the religious challenges it will pose to some members of those faiths but in my opinion, it’s long overdue that these challenges were faced.

The tradition of circumcision in the Abrahamic religions is by no means universally accepted.

www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/religious-reasons-not-circumcise

Maybe its to protect children?
That should be of paramount importance.

" banning ritual circumcision will make the 2000 Jews and Muslims living in Iceland feel unwelcome."
Maybe that's the whole point, varian.
To deter others from coming.

That’s a shame varian but I think nations have a duty to take a stand against cruel treatment of children, irrespective of whose feelings might be hurt.

The proposal to ban circimcison of children, except for medical reasons, is being opposed by Christians.

Agnes Sigurdarsdottir, Bishop of Iceland and head of the Icelandic Lutheran Church, says that banning ritual circumcision will make the 2000 Jews and Muslims living in Iceland feel unwelcome.

Teaching children about religion, and about others' beliefs, about the impact of religion in the history of the country is important. Isolating children in Faith schools where they are taught only the beliefs of their own community is not right, is discriminatory, drastically reduces the opportunity of girls (usually) to partake in further or higher education, to live the kind of life that our daughters take for granted, the chance to travel, share a flat with friends, marry who they wish without risking possible ostracism from their community.

indeed Henry certainly shows how religion can be manipulated for personal gain ...

I really like the way the French teach 'philosophy' and the great thinkers and philosophers through time- including religious ones.

Exactly SueDonim. The study of comparative religions fits well with learning about history and societies.

I wouldn't ban teaching about religion in schools. It's essential to know about religion to make sense of history - how would we teach about Henry VIII without reference to religion?

It's the influence of religion that's wrong, not the knowledge of it.

Delete last sentence!

The Gadarenes were primarily Greek, so they probably could tuck in to a bit of pork. My point was really that in the first century AD pigs were commonplace in Judaea, so much so that they feature twice in the gospels. By the time the Pentateuch was finished the Jews were in the promised land, flowing with milk and honey, not to mention water, where it was perfectly feasible to breed swine, so the desert argument doesn't seem to stand up.

There is a huge time gap between the making of the Jewish laws and Mohammed knocking off the Koran,

That said, why did the locals keep pigs, if not to eat them?

I have a feeling that the Gaderenes weren't Jews. So they could eat what they liked...

With regard to teaching religion in schools, particularly Christianity. Christianity has been a key driver of historical events for hundreds of years; think of Henry VIII, the Spanish Armada (and the RC plots to depose Eliz I), the English Civil War, the deposition of King James II. And, much nearer in time, the Troubles in Northern Ireland. They are all very closely connected to religion. How can children understand our history without knowing about Christianity and the deep divisions it led to.

It's a difficult one, I know, because I think that, having had it explained to them, our very secular children would probably be astounded and disbelieving that religion could have such a key role.

sorry about the glitch

I think that if a religious group feels the need to indoctrinate their children and not allow them to mix with others or learn that others have different beliefs, this points to a fund
+

emental insecurity about the "truth" of their faith.

Religious education in schools teaches about different beliefs and should cover many religions (not just two which I believe is required in the so-called "faith schools"). It should include non-religious philosphies and be set in a historical context.

In the UK Christianity has been the dominant religious tradition but children need to be given knowledge, not just indoctrinated with one rigid set of beliefs.

He probably had. But they weren't in the desert were they?
He was talking about the origins of religions , not stories or parables added later

Surely the CofE clergyman had heard of the Gadarene swine, and of the prodigal son living off the husks that the swine did eat? That said, why did the locals keep pigs, if not to eat them?

agreed jane, of course- makes total sense.

Totally agree with the Humanist Society that if we are going to teach 'ABOUT' religion, then we also must teach about the validity of making the choice to live morally wihtout.

That said, I've never personally objected to Nativity plays at the schools my kids attended. They are usually hilarious anyway and involve all sorts of non-religious ideas like fairies.

If a child's parents are Christian presumably they will tell the child "the Christmas Story". Likewise if a family goes to a Christian church. Presumably the same applies to children in families belonging to and practising other religions: i.e. the children are told the relevant stories, etc. I think it wiuld be unreasonable to expect schools to cover all of that which, if it is actually 'education', is what they should be attempting. Why not just leave the teaching of religious stories to families and churches?

There are other stories associated with midwinter feasting which are just as valid as "the Christmas Story". I don't think schools cover those much, if at all.

And learning about world religions can be a means of teaching tolerance for others’ views.