Grans Moral Maze

I’m against religious indoctrination in schools (obviously) but I’m not sure that you can exclude all references to it.
How can you teach the history of the Middle Ages without reference to religion, for example?
And would you ban Christmas plays?
I was saddened to realise that my American GC learned nothing of the Christmas story at school.
We may be a secular society but Christian values and teachings still have a place in society.

I totally agree with you MaisieD and SueDonim The point I was making is that a C of E clergyman believed this.

with you all the wayGilT

Agreed varian Just as we may decide it is wrong to carry out physical assaults on children, could you not also argue that all children who are capable of benefitting from integrated mainstream education should not be deprived of the opportunity This is imposition of religious belief, possibly with the best of intentions, but it is by keeping children separated that we end up with hatred/suspicions of 'others'/misunderstanding. When I take over, the religious schools will be one of the first things that I abolish

Looking at a few google results tells me that Jews don't eat pork because their criteria for animals that could be eaten was that they had cloven hooves (pigs do) and chewed the cud (pigs don't). So they're not kosher. It seems like a rather odd reason for not eating them but it is very deeply ingrained.

But this article takes it a bit further:

www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/87719/forbidden-food

It seems that the 'impure' idea comes from Islam (muslims don't eat pork either).

Maybe these religions made an early connection between eating undercooked pork and the possibility of ingesting trichinosis worms; though as primitive populations were probably infested with worms from all sorts of causes it seems unlikely...

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Same here- religion should be a private matter- and should have no place in schools, the government and the Judiciary- at all.

I think religion should have no place in schools etc, as GillT57 says.

BBbevan, I think it's also because pigs are scavengers and eat anything. Some Jewish people also don't eat shellfish such as prawns because they scavenge on the sea floor.

To do with living here and now (sorry)

I believe it is true, and that is also why they don't eat prawns and other shellfish -they go off too soon in the heat. It makes sense in the desert ( or did before refridgeration) but what has todo with living herd and now?

A CofE clergyman once told me that the reason Muslims and Jews do not eat pork is because their religions were founded in hot, desert areas. It would be impossible to keep pigs in such conditions.
I find this view interesting but have no idea if it is at all true.

The boys and girls are kept separate, as a rule, so there is little to no chance of them attending mainstream schools.
I think documentary shows the adults socialising, and saying that ordinarily there would need to be a wall dividing men from women.

Just as we may decide it is wrong to carry out physical assaults on children, could you not also argue that all children who are capable of benefitting from integrated mainstream education should not be deprived of the opportunity?

Religious instruction should, if it is important to the parents, only be carried out at times which do not deprive the child of a normal education.

The working wives must only be working in Jewish schools, not state schools as the women are not educated to degree level ( irrespective of desire or ability btw). I am very uncomfortable with any community being so isolated, irrespective of the religious reasons. There have been many reports in the press of the appalling, insanitary building where some Islamic and Orthodox Jewish schools are run ( to name just two), and I feel that the DofE should impose the same standards of teacher qualification, DBS check, Health & Safety standards, protection against discrimination on grounds of gender etc., as is a legal requirement for state schools. We should not allow practices which are against the law of the land to be over ruled on religious grounds; and to my mind this covers FGM, circumcision. religious schools and any other areas, such as religious slaughter practiced by the Abrahamic religions.

Actually, some Jewish folk went door knocking, offering to buy houses at more than the market value.
Some people were offended, some decided that actually they wouldn't mind taking up the offer.

Lemongrove, probably will be, although the houses are all brand new and I guess the landlords will want to charge accordingly, I was going to say that it was a bit of a culture shock for everybody when they visited the Island, but I guess it won’t be as the Jewish Community won’t mix with the Canvey Islanders.
Try and catch it, it was an interesting programme.
For a change!

I will try and see that thanks Oopsadaisy Canvey would be a lot cheaper for them to live than London.

Poor old wives....doing everything, what a strange set of religious rules.

It’s a fact about Hasidic Jews and their need for benefits - not a mistaken opinion. The situation varies amongst the families but benefits is often in the mix - not jsa of course but other benefits that would be payable such as housing benefit and child benefit and if the wife is working, child tax credits. They have been badly affected by the benefit cap of course and will be increasingly by the third and subsequent child rule. Many live in poverty but there is community/family support. Some of the men work part time and may be paid a little when studying. I’m not making any judgement on all of this btw

There is a circumcision practice which involves the rabbi sucking the blood from the wound.
I wouldn't know how common it is, or if its now banned, but it has been mentioned in cases of the child contracting herpes.

Lemongrove, the programme was called -Canvey , the promised Island- Available on iPlayer but you can read about it if you google it, it still says that 70% of the ultra orthodox population of Stamford hill live on housing and child benefits, so I didn’t imagine it!

I agree it is a barbaric custom and quite unjustified on health grounds.
But I doubt it would be banned because it could be seen as racist.

Its still removing something without a childs permission, which surely isn't morally right?

FGM is not comparable with circumcision btw.

I think there must be some mistake about the Hasidic Jews and claiming benefits, I did see a tv programme not long ago about it and the wives were working as teachers.

In my view, circumcision should be illegal except when recommended for medical reasons. FGM is already illegal and should be. I don't think many people would agree that FGM could be carried out if the female involved agreed to it and was over 16. I think the same should apply to circumcision, as such decisions may be reached after family/community pressure is applied. Would doctors be allowed under the medical code to carry out such procedures if a person over 16 requested it?

I really don't understand how thousands of Hassidic Jews can claim benefit on the basis that they must stay at home to pray. Surely in order to get benefits, a person has to prove they are seeking work? Or perhaps there is another benefit, not jobseekers allowance, that can be applied for?