Grans Moral Maze

My younger, American friend told me that she would find it strange and offputting if a man wasn't circumcised and shaved, as its considered the 'norm' as far as she is concerned.

Stunning is controversial amongst Muslims though and many would not eat pre-stunned meat.

For every boy who may or may not have been protected from a future hypothetical infection by having his foreskin removed, there may be many men who have suffered lifelong health complications from undergoing unnecessary surgery without anaesthetic or pain relief without their consent. I know which side my money’s on.

The question is though that is is done when there is no problem without the child’s consent.

99% of men get by quite happily with their foreskin intact, so I suspect this idea of high risk with regard infection is a myth.

whitewave, meat can be halal if the animal is stunned as long as the stunning only renders the animal unconscious but does doesn’t kill it. I don’t understand why the U.K. can’t follow similar laws to New Zealand with no exemptions for religious groups.

I don’t know whether the same applies to kosher meat but it seems people only get concerned about halal for some reason.

I think the female status in all religions is problematic. Women in Christianity and Judaism have still a fight to gain equality, and women are only worth at the most half of men in Islam.

The only protection that we as women have is the rule of law

I think there may be some evidence that removal does mean less chance of infection and so on. Just as removing all kinds of body parts would lessen risks, I suppose.

I am surprised that circumcision “is done a lot” in USA. Does that mean that more non-Jewish boys are getting problems with the foreskin? I can’t think why.

I think the argument that circumcision prevents infections and so on is akin to removing healthy breasts to prevent breast cancer, or vulva, in case of problems.

I think really we need to look a bit more carefully at the island of benefit claiming Jewish people.

Where in the DWP are there rules that excempt people of faith?

It can’t be halal if the animal is stunned.

With regard to circumcision - Iceland is banning circumcision in all circumstances except medical need.

Evidence based - sensible.

I am not speaking of their faith, I am questioning how 35,000 in a community of 38,000 are living on benefits

I think the slaughter method should be clearly marked on meat, and in anywhere that cooks or sells meat.

In New Zealand all animals have to be stunned before slaughter. There is no exemption for halal slaughter. Therefore New Zealand halal meat should be perfectly acceptable to meat eaters in the U.K. There is no reason why the same rules about stunning can’t be implemented in this country.

Hassidic Jews Annibach. The programme was about some of them looking for new homes in Canvey Island as Stamford Hill is getting too crowded. I always like to think of myself as tolerant, but this did boil my blood I am afraid. The greatest achievement for a Hassidic Jewish parent is to have a son become a Talmudic scholar, a position which involves study, and no paid employment. The result of this is the women working part time, while raising huge families, and the chief income source being HB and WTC. I do resent this.

The Island has a population of 38,000 and 35,000 are living on benefits ?

I'm working age still, Smithy, so as a single parent I need to work.
I just don't feel up to it yet.

I can't see the DWP paying out benefits for any length of time, to people who aren't doing what they're told to find work.

I entirely agree whitewave. Evidence based approach is vital.

That's dreadful MissA. How old are you - is it due to the change in pension age? What happened to fairness in society?
As for halal - I've not eaten meat for at least 30 years and can't imagine why anyone wants to it's so unhealthy, but that's how I see it.

I can’t imagine the Canvey Island Jews are getting any more benefit than anyone else now with this universal benefit and I suspect that the programme glossed over other issues that support these people’s claims to aid. Can you imagine anyone getting away with justifying a benefit claim that way? Another thread (don’t shoot me) is discussing the poverty trap so I can’t see how these people would be living the high life. Knowing them from Stamford Hill when I lived in neighbouring Tottenham many of them are impoverished.

The documentary was on BBC recently regarding some members of the Hacidic (sorry probably spelt wrong) Jewish community relocating to Canvey Island, the documentary spoke to a gentleman who had no time to work as he had to pray all day and he said that they were encouraged to have lots of children, they were mostly living in poor quality housing but approx 35,000 were living on benefits. This was not the Daily Mail and is probably still available on Catch up TV
Now. I am the last one to denigrate any religious minority, however when I see my sick DD trying to make ends meet, I get rather annoyed, no matter what religion it is.
In my eyes circumcision is an assault just as FGM is, and no anaesthetic ? Come on guys.
Sadly, we accommodate so much in the name of religion, that sometimes I despair.

I live in the place the documentary was made about those whose faith means they can't work.
Its rather a dilemma for me, considering I'm being railroaded back to work since losing my daughter and taking on my grandson. Sigh.

Circumcision can often be a good thing though, boys get so many painful infections which they wouldn't do if the foreskin had been removed, surgery is often used for this very reason.In fact, in the US it’s done a lot, for that very reason( in non Jewish boys.)
IMHO anything that is not actually cruel or illegal should be allowed for any section, sect or group, without imposing bans.

Dailymailism