Corbyn and Momentum

Lemongrove, if you go back through my previous posting in this thread you will find how I believe Momentum has been supported. That did not include the adage "a wink under the table"

Lemongrove, no one can "drag" the Labour party off to the left, those decisions are made by its statuary committee's where there has to be a majority for any policy to be brought into being.

So it’s a wink wink under the table arrangement then.

Pogs Momentum would not admit to having "official" union support now or in its foundation. That reason would be because no employed Organizer, staff or statuary committee has given support as that has come from "grass roots trade union activists" not directly employed by their unions.

The 1945 election was 73 years ago, I think labour governments since have managed to do some good for the country

Grandad Blair is now viewed with disdain because it is being dragged off to the far left.

If everybody was ‘ashamed’ of this government ( and of course they are not) then they wouldn't be in power three
Times in a row would they? So they must be doing something right.

Grandad 1943

I have been quietly sitting back watching this thread so I apologize for not responding to your reply on Sat 16.50

I asked questions of you on Fri 23-Feb-18 19:51:23 in response to a couple of your posts I found intriguing . In part they were as follows :--

" I am correct in my understanding of your posts am I not, you are stating that Momentum was and always has been an organisation that was started by Unite Union with Jon Lansman??"

"To raise points of question I need to be clear that you are declaring Jeremy for Leader / Momentum and the Unite Union are one of the same and have been colluding for years. ."
--

By saying in your reply to me Sat 24-Feb-18 16:50:56 :-

"Again, apologies if I did not make myself entirely clear in my previous postings in regards to Unite union involvement with Momentum, as reading back through my postings I believe that maybe the case"

" In the above the "development of recruitment and branch ambitions" would be undoubtedly where funds can be channeled to the community branches and then into the development of Momentum. Within that Unite and other unions can legitimately claim that none of their employed Organizers or staff are involved in supporting Momentum in any way. They can also claim similar in regard to any of their their senior Lay committee's at national, regional or district level."

"Anyone who has doubts in regard to the above has to then answer the question on how Momentum emerged so quickly and predominantly within the Labour movement and with such strong organizational ability."

This leads me to believe that YES you are stating Momentum was and always has been an organisation that was started by Unite Union through the Community Branches with Jon Lansman , hence in a previous post you wrote -

"The independent Community Branches (also joined later by activists from other leading unions) formed an affiliation under which Momentum was brought into being. ".

I have to be correct in my understanding of your position this is a clear statement of Unites connection as it is clearly not what Momentum and other parties have intimated of how Momentum was started.

Or am I mistaken.

Thank you.

Yes, the Labour party has moved to the left. However the great reforming Clement Atlee Labour government of 1945 by today's standards would be viewed as extreme left. However, much of what that government brought into being is still with us today, such as the NHS and the welfare state.

The huge council housing building program that above Labour government brought into being under the "Homes fit for hero's" title and provided first homes for so many for over more than thirty years was destroyed by the Thatcher government. Since those houses were sold off no replacement program has ever been brought into being by any government be that Labour or Conservative which has brought about the present housing crisis

Along with the foregoing agency labour was made legal by that Thatcher government, which along with allowing zero hours contracts introduced by succeeding Conservative governments has played a major roll in the downward circle of poor wages so witnessed over the last several decades (what is known as the race to the bottom).

The Blair Labour government did little to redress any of the above and therefore is now viewed with disdain by many current Labour activists and supporters. In the above, anyone can see the reason for Labours move to the left, back to the values and policies of Atlee and Labours true roots.

trisher....are you suggesting that Corbyn is only slightly left of centre? Or that you are? It isn’t clear.

Spot on Annie they are far left indeed!

In my opinion, anyone who cannot criticise Corbyn for his silence on Venezuela, who defends him for supporting the IRA, who tries to justify de selection of some MP's, who defends him for working against his party leader, voted for by party members, who sacks an MP for disagreeing with him but defends the numerous times he did the same and worse is not slightly left of centre, they are far left.

Maizie - that was Primark mostly, wasn't it? They changed their workwear policy in 2016. People were paid £23.75 on average because of that.

No, they're reporting it now; I just can't find the reference again. [Hangs head in shame at inefficient record keeping]

Why do blatantly right wing posters persist in regarding themselves as "moderates" and anyone with views slightly left of centre as "hard left" or "commies"? It is of course an attempt to justify their allegiance to a party and a government that has presided over the creation of more poverty, more homelessness, less secure employment, and a greater gap between rich and poor than ever before, and all that without solving any financial problems. But of course they don't want to admit responsibility so they blame the Labour Party and its supporters for forcing them to vote as they did. Which only goes to prove that this government is something everyone is ashamed of.

"New members are similarly left-wing on the state-market dimension, although they are more likely to regard themselves as further left and are certainly somewhat more socially liberal than older members."

So all the old Commies are coming out of the woodwork too then? I can easily believe Momentum/Labour attracts the hard left/revolutionary types.

Is there a place for moderates? I doubt it.

Will the Conservative party slowly move into the just left of centre slot Labour seems hell bent on giving up and determined to vacate?

We know Momentum wants to eradicate the moderate MPs of the party too.

Sorry nightowl - it's been pointed out to me by other posters that the past doesn't matter as Momentum is made up of youngsters who cannot remember the 70's.
Seems I was 'educated' by people who didn't know what they were talking about. Good to know the LSE study backs up what I originally thought.

Yes I have seen exactly the same evidence nightowl

Momentum is attracting all ages and all social classes.

Yes, I remember Thatcher and her refusal to support our fight to support the black S.A. I also remember Cameron went to S.A. for a company which supported apartheid, he dismissed it as 'just a jolly'

I know the first people Mandela met privately when he first visited the U.K and he also addressed the Labour Party Conference .

I find I cannot forgive those who support regimes who are brutal to their fellow country men, neither can I support someone who supported terrorists .

Your analysis of new Labour Party membership simply does not hold up Day6. Research carried out by LSE in 2016 highlighted the following.

In short, the Corbyn leadership has attracted similar people in terms of age, education and occupational class to those who were Labour members in 2015, although new members are slightly less well-off and more gender balanced than the past. New members are similarly left-wing on the state-market dimension, although they are more likely to regard themselves as further left and are certainly somewhat more socially liberal than older members.

Nor is it true that Momentum has attracted mainly young people who ‘cannot remember the 1970s’. Momentum’s own database shows the highest proportion of members belong to the 30-49 year age group and the 50 to 69 year age group, at 38% each. Those aged under 29 comprise only 18% of members.

Press code of practice.
pbs.twimg.com/media/DW5l5j3X0AMhuFn?format=jpg

This is why the majority are sensible to get their news from such a wide variety of sources as is possible. The MSM can no longer be trusted to adher to truth and integrity.

"Conservative party membership is the size of a Manchester United football crowd."

Only people who have strong feelings and follow political developments quite closely become members of political parties. I suspect you know that.

Mind you, I also think the young may be siding with Jeremy Corbyn and Momentum with very little idea of what they have joined. I expect Labour were recruiting at Glastonbury (for example) where Labour's charm offensive made them feel important and cool. We are experiencing the 'cult of youth' after all. Would be interesting to question them about the party and policies. Could this recruitment campaign on the part of Labour be little more than getting onside deluded, idealistic but ignorant youth, the 'useful idiots' with little knowledge of Marxism, who'll help Momentum and the hard left realise their power-grab?

We are not of course allowed to disparage 'youth' in any way, shape or form though, are we?

If we aren't in the first flush of youth we count for nothing according to young keyboard warriors. The future isn't ours and our views have been discarded even though many of us may have 30 or 40 years left, even though we have family and grandchildren we care about. Many of us are carers still, looking after sick or frail relatives or doing the childcare on a daily basis for our working adult children. We are a strong force who may have such busy and active lives that joining a political party is the last thing on our minds. What about 40-somethings, neither young nor old. Has the wisdom gained from living a bit longer influenced the way they will vote? What about those in their 50s, still working, still striving to better themselves.? What do they think? Has anyone asked them?

It seems to me the press and social media seem rather fixated on the young vote as if everyone else can be discounted. How very short-sighted of them.

Party membership numbers may give you a false sense of security. Remember the silent, overlooked masses who rose up against middle class Remainers to ensure we left the EU?

Other viewpoints are available.

All political parties do well at certain times, so I can see the point of not always voting a certain way.
Blair actually did quite a lot of good things, but the wrong decisions outweighed the right ones.
I think the Conservatives have been good after the financial crash, and what we needed, and if they steer ok through Brexit all well and good.If a moderate Labour Leader was at the helm, IMHO in a year or two, then it would be time for a change.Unfortunately, a moderate Leader is not at the helm!

I have to count myself as one because I voted for them in the last GE, just to keep Corbyn out, but am actually homeless at the moment politically since the Lib Dems ruined things by not voting for Clegg the second time around and because of their stance on Brexit.
If Corbyn stands at the next GE then I shall vote against Labour again.
In the future, once he is out of the picture I will have to review the situation.Our DC say the same( and one of them always voted Labour.)
Many voters are in this position now.

I wish!