Corbyn and Momentum

Maryeliza His name is Michael Holden.

He's worked in rail since the 1970's and knows what he's talking about. He's quite open in his criticism of the current structure but is against nationalisation. I think the debate about rail would be better if his voice was heard.

trisher averaging the expenditure on new projects doesn't remove the extra spending! It just spreads them over the years you average. The link you posted clearly says

It’s still worth bearing in mind that we’ve never been using the railways more, and this clearly has an impact on the amount of funding the system needs to cope.

so usage is a factor.

If you remove the expenditure on the big new projects from the average and pro-rata the spending out against usage, the numbers are far closer.

The privatisation people talk about seems to focus on the train operating companies, like Virgin. Unfortunately, these are not the parts of the system that cost money - they make the government money. From the ORR

For the seventh year in a row, train operating companies (TOCs) paid more (£763m) to government in premium payments than they received in subsidies

The fullfact article uses the data from the ORR as they are a reliable source. The government spending does not go to the shareholders of the operating companies at all. They pay money to the government, which subsidises the spending.

It's absolutely not a certainty that it would cost less and provide a better service! The cost would be what the government decided to spend. The service would be what the unions chose to provide.

I didn’t know that Primrose but I did rather think that Virgin /Stagecoach are bowing out again so I wonder what system can make a success of it?

Thanks for that clarification ab - so no party has it right then, not just Corbyn? ( just to be clear)

Interesting that the person who ran the renationalised East Coast said he made it a success despite renationalisation, not because of it. He is against renationalisation. But that's an inconvenient voice of an expert with working knowledge of the system and the issues, so he's ignored.

I support free school meals for children whose parents are on low earnings right up to leaving school, I do not support free school meals for all regardless of income

Wanting to renationalise the railways is NOT nostalgia for British Rail. The renationalsation of the East Coast Line showed what could be done in today’s world. I’ve been commuting all week btw on dirty overcrowded trains that were late every day ( and paying handsomely for the privilege)

Labour’s Corbynsceptics need to build bridges – but they can’t agree on how

An article in this weeks New Statesman. This seems to be the problem for those so opposed to change.

ab we do already have free school meals for all children in Reception and year 1 and 2. It was brought in by the coalition and was one of the things that the Tories were to abolish as part of the 2017 manifesto but changed their minds on. Do you completely disagree with this policy and can you not see any arguments for it?

No comparison between what was British Rail and the services now required , there is a nostalgia for British Rail, it was dirty, and many parts of the country no longer have a railway

Primrose65 the figures are averaged over 5 years to take into account the expenditure on Crossrail. You can read about this fullfact.org/economy/government-funding-rail-industry-bbcqt/
What remains certain is that many thought privatisation would cost the public less and provide a better and cheaper service whereas it has done exactly the opposite for all three.

trisher do those figures include projects like Crossrail and HS2? Also, is there any relationship between the funding and the number of passengers? I'd imagine the services are pretty different today than they were in the 80's on some lines.

It's easy to compare the numbers, but it's not really comparing like with like.

^Interestingly I see that Corbyns office is to support a Unite Officer to replace Ian McNicol

It is certainly going to be interesting to see how this plays out whitewave. I am not surprised that the right make so much of the unions being involved with the LP- they are just propagandising it and they would, wouldn't they. It does surprise me to see ex LP members and even current ones acting out and trying to deny democracy to current members.

They seem to have forgotten that it is, after all, exactly what they did. They seem to be of the same mindset as those who want to silence remain voters in the B referendum. Their stance seems to be - "we have decided so it may now never change". A very odd idea of democracy.

Annie interesting that you should bring up the underfunding of the railways and privatisation. The taxpayer now contributes almost 3 times as much to the rail companies as they did to British Rail. In other words they are putting money in shareholders' pockets. A great reason for taking the Railways back into public hands
Britain’s privatised railways have been getting around £5 billion on average in government support over the last five years. In the last five years of the 1980s—the earliest period we have figures for before privatisation—it was an average of £1.6 billion in today’s money.

Difficult separating promises from aspirations Primrose, many students believed their university fees would be given back to them, then Corbyn said it was an aspiration not a promise .

Where is the logic in simple things like free school meals for all regardless of income, a labourer with one child in school pays tax for the three children of two doctors to have free school meals.

I didn't know about the free musical instruments for every child. The shopping list just gets longer and longer.

What's interesting to me is that everyone on the 'radical left' just assumes that companies will be able to pay a punitive tax rate. It will hit the small & medium companies and everyone in work who pays tax.

The UK seems to be the epicentre of global business when they talk about taxation and a tiny player with no power when you talk about Brexit.

Plus Primrose , free school meals for every child regardless of parents income, plus free music lessons and free musical instruments for every child. And the buying of 8,000 properties for the homeless as soon as Corbyn moves into No.10

I have been thinking about grandads post and my thoughts on the subject of Corbyn and the new wave of Labourism, - the wish to return to a more radical form, reflecting more the deep seated roots of the Labour movement and the sort of change we saw post war.

There is no doubt that this is a high risk strategy, as there are many powerful and dark forces that will do everything in their power to prevent this happening. As we have recently witnessed including lying.
Blair reconciled this by taking the Labour Party towards a light form of Toryism, but thousands in the labour movement rejected this and left the Labour Party in droves.
What is to be done?

We will always have an enormous fight to overcome the vested interests who will cling on to their tax avoiding, tax light wealth. Why wouldn’t they?

I think it is a fight worth the candle - we may not win, but I simply can’t see any alternative but to try to save this country from the dark message of tax light, low regulation, privatised economy. To one that dwells on community, safety nets and embrace.

www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion

That makes perfect sense to me Annie. The trouble is, people believe that John McDonnell will create a huge pot of money by taxing anyone who isn't you. He'll spend on the NHS, education, local councils, benefits, abolish poverty and still have enough left to renationalise transport, utilities etc.

If you dare to mention that this is not achievable, you're in trouble!

A chap talking in radio yesterday ,on Today, has worked for British Rail and privatised rail. He said the problem with British Rail was the lack of money , NHS, Education etc come first and British Rail came low down the list

The Conservatives had a poorly thought out manifesto and a lacklustre election campaign which resulted in their win (but only just) they vastly underestimated a Momentum fuelled Corbyn party.I suggest that won’t happen again though.
Even though Corbyn was offering the moon on a stick it didn’t translate into enough seats to win the GE.
It all depends now on how Brexit pans out, if May does well
Then the LP recedes more into the background, if not then
It stands more of a chance ( with or without Corbyn) as voters would then blame the ruling party.
The Conservatives have now won three elections in a row, normally that would mean the next GE would be a dead cert for a change, but with a far left Leader of the Opposition, who knows how the electorate will feel?

So that's why he vanished during the lead up to the referendum , even took a holiday

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a total mess of things.

Good guide to go by and one Corbyn has followed.

All focus on the government.

Will Corbyn get his bottom off the fence next week