Corbyn and Momentum

Yes it seems that the unite candidate may well win although I am reading that other unions are not impressed with Unite’s ascendancy.

I don’t have an opinion as I really don’t know much about the candidates.

Interesting - your comments on Lansman, but presumably he is entitled to stand?

Grandad 1945

Given you have intimated you believe Jon Lansman and the Unite Union, albeit without official status so to speak, started Momentum, something I am struggling to accept, can I ask you this.

Why do you think Lansman is standing against against Jennie Formby for the position of General Secretary?.

The close link between Momentum and Unite and the close link both ' personally ' and ' professionally ' between McClusky and Jennie Formby surely could lead to Len McClusky being put in a difficult position and would that not be a peculiar position to put him in as an ally, accomplice ?

I must admit I think if the rumours are true Jon Lansman , Jenny Formby and Andrew Murray are all candidates and presumably one of them wins I see this as even more of a shift to the far left for the Labour Party and the position of General Secretary will seal the deal.

It puts Corbyn in a position of having to back one or tuther too . Or is it perhaps all a set up and they know who will run and win anyway?

Did you prefer Len McClusky or Gerrard Coyne when the Unite Union Leader was voted on?

Appreciate your thought.

Quote Whiewave[ Yes it seems that the unite candidate may well win although I am reading that other unions are not impressed with Unite’s ascendancy.

I don’t have an opinion as I really don’t know much about the candidates.
Interesting - your comments on Lansman, but presumably he is entitled to stand?]End Quote

Jon Landsman would be entitled to stand, but he would have to resign his seat on the National Executive. The same would apply to Jennie Formby as the General Secretary position is administrative and in that the primary duty in the position is to see that the wishes of the senior organising bodies of the movement are carried out.

In the above, under the governing rules of the Labour party and the wider Labour movement, no person can be involved in the decision making of any body whose decisions they are tasked to carryout.

My feelings are that the trade unions have been at the centre of the Labour party since its formation in the early decades of the last century. Momentum has done a great job in changing the stance of the Labour party and in that giving the electorate a real choice and alternative to the centre thinking that has so dominated British politics for more than three decades.

However, the trade unions have a long standing organising structure that has seen the Labour party well through the good and the bad years. Therefore, I feel they should remain in prominence within the Labour party especially when this country has never been so devided.

Tbh I think that the unions will remain in prominence as they finance the Labour Party to a great degree.

If Momentum do nothing else I think that they have shown many labour members that there is the opportunity to be grabbed of greater democracy in the process of policy making. Society can only benefit from a more political involved and knowledgable population.

Pogs, the support for Momentum has come from grassroots administrators within the trade unions ( by example, Branch Secretary, Branch Chairman, District Secretaries etc). In that they are not allowed under rule to be involved in policy decision making in their role, hence why they carry the title Secretary.

The above personal in the main carry a great abhorrence of the Blair premiership years and in that they have used their organising skills in the building of Momentum I believe. However, at the same time they were/are able to play an active role in Momentum's policy building and decision making without rule restriction.

Whitewave, 19:58 very well said, something everyone should think on.

I agree that it is good to see the relationship between the unions and the LP rising from the ashes. I would really love to see more 'working communities' working together in this way but I wonder if it will be under the same sort of groupings we have had in the past or whether the changes in employment structures would need changes in groupings for unions. Perhaps, instead of them gathering under the industries they may need to look at a Platform Workers Union (platform as in internet not trains) or a zero hours contract union.

Wally yes, Lansman is a Communist and so are many others ‘now back in the fold’ I expect.All the Militant types from a while ago along with younger ones, infiltrating the LP from all sides. A council appointmant here, an NEC position there etc.
The 170 Labour MP’s who signed a letter of no confidence in Corbyn should have broken away at that point and started a new Centrist Party.

Am not worrying yet, as I hope another GE will be years away, but thinking of McDonnell as Chancellor is actually worse than thinking of Jezza as PM.

gg I’m not sure but I have a feeling that legislation by largely the Tory government’s prevents certain types of unionisation.

Over to you grandad

What you fail to appreciate Grandad is that the British people like the ‘centre’ thinking and don’t go for extremes,why do you think Blair did so very well!

Isn’t this thread managing to be a lot more civil than some other threads? Good isn’t it?

the British people like the ‘centre’ thinking and don’t go for extremes
You can say that until kingdom come lemongrove but unless you are a follower of Corbyn and Momentum, you are labelled right-wing.

I know so little about this whitewave and thank you - it is great to see so much knowledge being shared. I am really enjoying this thread.

The other thing I think is interesting is that there is no doubting the success of Momentum who continues to attract new members at the rate of between 500-800 + per week (it depends on how much criticism the Labour Party is attracting).

The Tory membership is failing and I would not be not be surprised if they are giving consideration as to how to emulate momentum’s success. They do have a number of serious problems to overcome imo. First they need the organisation on the ground, which they don’t have and second they need to introduce a greater degree of opportunity for their members to take part in the democratic process. At the moment that seems to be flowing in the opposite direction, with the Tory leadership taking back control from local parties.

Social media has shown, in particularly the young the possibilities in getting involved in party politics.

The Tory young (if there are any) - most Tories seem to be born at 60- are ill served.

Quote..Lemongrove [ What you fail to appreciateGrandadis that the British peoplelikethe ‘centre’ thinking and don’t go for extremes,why do you think Blair did so very well!] End Quote

Lemongrove, I feel that the Labour movement today think on the Blair years as an extension of the John Major years and it is true to say that centre thinking was dominant and popular throughout that period.

However, Blairs big failure (outside the Iraqi war) was not revising the anti trade union legislation brought in initially by Thatcher and then extended by subsequent Conservative governments.

The Original legislation of having postal ballots Before any industrial action can be called was at least somewhat acceptable even to the trade unions. However, the extension of that legislation that requires fourteen days notice to be given to an employer before industrial action is to take place was devastating. Further legislation stating the name of all employees taking part in the any action was also to be given to the employer was even more devastating and completely reset to the balance between employee and employer.

The above has brought down drastically the number of industrial actions taking place, but has also very largely contributed to the low wages growth and through that employer/employee inequality throughout middle Britain.

In the above, low wages mean that many younger workers with families do not earn sufficient to get access to a mortgage and own their own home. Workers have also not had the power to resist widespread agency labour being introduced into workplaces, and worst of all the gig economy workers that would have been resisted in workplaces by those with full employment contracts in previous decades can no longer be resisted.

Lemongrove, yes centre thinking was popular among middle Britain during the 1990s and early 2000s, but as the last General Election demonstrated that is now changing as middle Britain seems now to be realising that thinking no longer promotes their interests and ambitions

Does it though?
Corbyn offered them the earth at the last GE and he still didn’t make it into power.
I think that the more that his past history is known about, the lower his chances of success.
A week in politics is a long time though, as they like to say.
Everything turns now on the Brexit that is achieved.

Lemongrove, political thinking change will be a gradual process. However, the Conservatives began the last GE campaign with a twenty point lead in the opinion polls, that's why they called the election.

The Conservatives ended that campaign by losing their majority in parliament such was the swing when the problems of Britain were laid out by Jeremy Corbyn in is "Street fighter" style campaign. There is no reason to think at present that should another General Election come about the same swing would not take place.

I will agree with you through Lemongrove that much depends on the outcome of Brexit

More support for Jennie Formby.

The values that the Labour Party rejects

“In the U.K. we live in a society created by Thatcher/Murdoch/Aynrand.

In this society according to the governing class- selfishness is a good thing and the poor are deserving to be poor.

We can, and must change these ruling values.

Tom London

From Private Eye

I do like Private Eye, thank Lemon ?

Was surprised to read a post speaking of - the governing class , haven't heard that for many years , think the seventies

We hear the phrase "governing elite" all the time Annie - would you prefer that?

When it comes to the Tories I do think many of them still believe in a class system (rather than a meritocracy) and many believe that they were born into the "governing classes". It may have died out in speech but I don't think it is culturally dead. Brexit has probably brought this sense of superiority, first of classes and then of the British in general, more to the fore than we have seen for many a long day.

George Orwell, from Tom London's website, which is where whitewave got that quote from.

Another Brexit theme.