Would Labour turn this country into a communist state?

dj Do your really believe that the gulags no longer exist? That they have gone from modern Russia? Under Putin? Have a look at the number of people who oppose him who have been sent to prison on trumped up charges in distant parts of the country like Siberia. Those that are fortunate enough not to be murdered, die in accidents, be beaten up by gangsters, that is.

jura we are not Italy, and our politics is ( thankfully) nothing like theirs, or their way of doing things!

It's a democratic socialist party and members/supporters believe in democracy.

But this seems to be what its non-supporters, and some former supporters, think is not true...

Gulags don't exist any more.
If gulags still exist, then so do our workhouses.
Both are historical.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

There is a big difference in being scared of communism and being concerned about a government with communist beliefs

How do you think a labour government would turn this country into a communist state, Annie?
That was the question.

What is it about the 'communist beliefs' that concerns you, ab?

And what 'are' those communist beliefs? ( Please don't say 'marxism' because that won't take us any further forward in the discussion)

I'm not particularly worried about an answer to that particular question, dj. I just want to understand just what it is that people fear.

Another thing I am wondering is who do people expect those they say are on the "hard left" or Marxist or Communist to vote for?
Labour is the only party of the left.

Maizie: It's- a democratic socialist party and members/supporters believe in democracy.

But this seems to be what its non-supporters, and some former supporters, think is not true...

Back to your original question, why? Non-supporters are bombarded with 'fake news' from MSM, confusing socialism and communism for their own ends.
And the former supporters are losing their positions, due to democracy in the current party. so of course they don't like it :-)

There is a big difference in being scared of communism and being concerned about a government with communist beliefs

You could say that what some are showing a fear of (as they don't seem able to explain) is some sort of totalitarian regime. We has some reason to fear; good people have supported a totalitarian state within the lifetime of some forum members - but that was a right wing totalitarian state. Surely what we should be worried about is any attack on democracy.

Are we what we call ourselves or what others call us? Some seem (rather like Trump did with Bernie Sanders) to be muddling up "socialism" and "communism". Members of the Labour Party see themselves as democratic socialists (as does Bernie Sanders).

It is easy to see the reason why the confusion arose. During the cold war the words "socialism" and "communism" were used interchangeably. This seems to be what some older people cling to and younger people do not understand - they have no wish to see a totalitarian state. They look to countries which have "democratic socialism" - which is used in an equally confusing and annoying way as interchangeable with "social democracy" - such as Sweden, Denmark and other Scandinavian countries. They are clearly not "communist" by any definition. Indeed Demark is said to be one of the happiest countries in the world, with Sweden, Norway and Finland being among the most happy and Norway is listed by The Economist (hardly a left wing part of the media) as the top of their list for democracy.

has have

In answer to the original question:
Would Labour turn this country into a communist state?
no it won't, but some of its less charming members would like it to do so.

Socialism can be totally democratic - not sure fascism can.

The Labour Party was always a Democratic Party, not now

Would you like to name any, eazybee?
I can't think of a single one.

I really think you have to explain that Annie. I have not seen anything to show it is undemocratic and would like to know just what you have. That is an enormous charge to make.

In answer to the original question:
Would Labour turn this country into a communist state?

I do kind of wish

a) that I hadn't given this thread that silly title
b) that people would read my opening post

I am really trying to find out out just what it is that people fear about Labour

Difficult for those of us who don't fear revolutionary communism Maizie. All we can try and do is tease out the exact meaning and fears of those who do fear it. It seems that people who use this word either actually don't know exactly what it is they fear or can't manage to explain it. I am not sure how we will ever know if that is the case.

Difficult for those of us who don't fear revolutionary communism
I'm rather confused now; are you saying that we would head for revolutionary communism and it is nothing to fear?
I thought the reassurance was that we had nothing to fear because the present Labour party is nowhere near being communist.
I thought they were more democratic socialists now, veering further left than social democracy.

If someone could explain that, I would be grateful.

I thought they were more democratic socialists now, veering further left than social democracy.

2 questions:

In what way are they 'veering further left than social democracy' Jalima?

Is this your opinion?

Difficult for those of us who don't fear revolutionary communism Maizie.

I must confess, GG that I would be rather wary of revolutionary communism. Unless you are conceiving something rather different from the historical examples...

I'm rather confused now; are you saying that we would head for revolutionary communism and it is nothing to fear?

Noooo. Sorry, I didn't put that very well although, if you had read my previous post you would know I think we should oppose anything that leads to the death of democracy be it revolutionary communism or fascism.

What I meant is that I do not believe that this is what the Labour Party intend so currently do not fear it but certainly try to be aware of any attacks on democracy. However the only one's of that have happened recently have come from the right not the left.

Isn't this a bit of Whataboutery. "What about" it if I didn't fear the actuality of communism? That is not what we are discussing is it? I thought we were discussing what those who have thrown that term - communist/communism -about on these threads mean by it, and what they actually fear.

What do you mean by Social Democracy Jalima - as you think Democratic Socialism is "further to the left".

I thought we were discussing what Communism means and what it is that people actually fear that to them, using that word, expresses? Maybe though, the above would throw some light on the issue. Mind you we will still only be guessing unless the users of the word explain for us.

An attack on democracy in the housing speeches?

24housing.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=ddd12a1ee3330a83986ae5fc5&id=834d58818c&e=23ddde61eb

Failing councils will lose planning powers. Tory government decides which councils are failing.