Would Labour turn this country into a communist state?

Would really like you to put forward a proper argument though, if that is your opinion.

In the US, even the Democrats have been called 'socialists' by the Republicans. In order to understand the word, you have to look at who is using it
But there are several different terms and the differences between the various forms are still not clear to many people.

But there are several different terms and the differences between the various forms are still not clear to many people.

That's why I was trying to ask people to explain what they mean by terms such as 'communism'.

Maizie, I gather that strict party communism is as bad as strict party Conservatism. In other words there is reason to distrust any politician who put the rules and regulations of the party before the good of the country and the people.

Soviet communism became self serving. There is always a ruling elite but some elite persons are interested mainly in conserving their political party.

Religions, and big charities also become like that and need constant pruning.

Soviet communism became self serving. There is always a ruling elite but some elite persons are interested mainly in conserving their political party.

We wouldn't have all out Communism but I think the way the Labour Party is reforming itself into a hard left group and excluding anyone with moderate views has to be worrying. You can almost picture stronger Unions backed by the hard left once again holding the country to ransom. Could there be an abuse of far left power if the New New Labour Party (once again transformed) ever got inside No 10?

For 'some elite persons' couldn't you name the hard left Lansman, McDonnel, Corbyn etc, maybe?

How democratic is the Labour party now after the January NEC elections?

Jeremy Corbyn’s hard-left cronies tighten grip on Labour’s ruling body

Ahead of the election result, Ms Lloyd (the deputy director of centrist Labour pressure group Progress )said: “To know what a nightmare it will be to have Jon Lansman on the NEC you only have to look at his determination to bring in mandatory reselection of Labour MPs, his recent calls to redo every London councillor’s selection with only months before polling day, and how he stopped all democratic discussion on Brexit at the Labour Party conference.”

My way or the highway for some life-long Labour supporters and workers it would seem? How would the public (all sectors) fare under a hard left government?

You can almost picture stronger Unions backed by the hard left once again holding the country to ransom.

You would only be able to do that "again" if you felt it happened in the past. I didn't. Your "you" should be "I" or at least "some people". It a bit inappropriate surely, to assume you know how everyone would see it.

I would welcome stronger unions. What I don't want is a war between them and the government. If there was I would blame those with the greatest power and that would be the government for misuse of that power. Unfortunately, yet again, they have screwed people down so hard that it wouldn't surprise me if there was a backlash and the next government - of whatever flavour - was left to deal with it.

I bought the Observer for a change yesterday and will continue - a much more serious paper than the S.T. which is becoming more and more like the D. M.
There's an interesting article by Yasha Mounk about the worldwide increase of countries being taken over by authoritarian parties, whether from right or left.
The writer fears for the future of more moderate social democratic political groups.
The UK is by no means alone in the political shift.
He also says it's more the younger people who are looking for extreme solutions, because they've never experienced fascism. Does that apply in the UK?

If communism takes over, it takes over. What form it takes you will not know until it happens - and what it may become is even more uncertain.

All this argument about the hows and whys of exactly what communism is, sounds like people on the Titanic arguing about what style of deck chair they want to cling onto when the ship sinks.

So what do you mean by communism, Monica?

That's what some of us are trying to find out - the difference between different types of socialism.

Apparently we are supposed to decide for ourselves.

In its broadest sense, the end of capitalism and everything run by the state.

" GGM2 - You would only be able to do that "again" if you felt it happened in the past. I didn't."

You obviously didn't have a factory working Dad who sat at the kitchen table and cried. The wildcat strikes of the 1970s which meant he had to turn back at the factory gates (after cycling ten miles to get to work) left him without pay and worried sick as to how he'd pay the bills.

It was an abuse of Union power. They held the country to ransom. You are saying you don't remember being without electricity, hospitals running on battery power and candles, rubbish littered the streets because of refuse collectors striking, and people seriously had to think about burying their dead when gravediggers went on strike. Corpses were piling up in mortuaries.

If you weren't affected by that industrial action, brought about by militant unions, you were very lucky indeed.

I firmly believe in Unions and I firmly believe in worker's rights but if you lived through the 70s you can appreciate why their powers were curbed.

Yes, we are all (mainly) old enough to remember that scenario Day6 and never want it back again!
Wildcat srikes and flying pickets.

You obviously didn't have a factory working Dad who sat at the kitchen table and cried. The wildcat strikes of the 1970s which meant he had to turn back at the factory gates (after cycling ten miles to get to work) left him without pay and worried sick as to how he'd pay the bills.

As that was your father Day6 it is patently obvious it wasn't mine exact experience. However, I, and many others lived through the 1970s and formed our own opinions from our own experiences - and they are just as relevant. I am certainly not going to trade virtuous pasts with you.

You put forward your views as if everyone must share them. I don't. All that means is we have different views not that I do not have empathy for people who suffered in many different ways then and for those who suffer now under this government.

I notice Lemongrove you are talking for us all again. It is you opinion you are voicing - not a fact.

I think that people's experience of the 70s varies greatly. I was living in Sheffield during the 'Winter of Discontent' and it wasn't by any means as bad as might have been experienced in other places. We didn't have rubbish piling up in the streets, nor bodies left unburied. We did have problems getting shifts covered (I worked in hospital catering) but we worked through it, Being in a management union I wasn't on strike, I was in the kitchen, cooking...

As I recall the public sector workers strikes were an expression of frustration and desperation; after having complied with wage restraint (the Social Contract) and roaring inflation eroding the value of those restrained wages, they were just asked to put up with too much.

I was still in Yorkshire during the Miner's Strike which, IMO, was a huge misjudgement on the part of their leaders who traded shamefully on the solidarity of their members by striking when coal stocks were high and playing straight into Thatcher's hands. The decimation of the unions and of heavy industry in the 80s was, too a great extent, a vicious and vengeful act which went too far. It wasn't just 'curbing the power of the unions', it was complete destruction of them and the North has suffered ever since...

I've always felt that 'the union problem' was very much a management problem too. Too much 'us and them' and not enough appreciation of either side's point of view.

The whole ethos of this site GG is to share, exchange views, thoughts & ohh yes ‘Opinions’ when will you stop being obsessed with telling other posters how they should word their views & ‘ opinions.’ I am sure you have the intelligence to understand the meaning of a post even if it is not grammatically expressed to your liking .

Or whether those opinions are relevant or not, it is not for you to decide what is & isnt & that is because it is an ‘ Opinion’ not a court of law !

I'm reading a book about shipbuilding on Tyneside during the first world war.
Anybody living with a suffragette was sacked and the unions did not stand up for them. They were on the side of the bosses, because they could have been sacked too.

It's not up to anybody to tell us how "we all think", either, which happens quite regularly.

"You put forward your views as if everyone must share them."

No I don't GracesGran. I put forward my views as my views. If you want to nit-pick regarding syntax go ahead and show yourself up to be the self-appointed forum arbiter of style and content, as you so frequently do.

I am not quite sure where you get the authority from to feel you determine style and content. Perhaps you don't know you are doing it?

I am pleased to see others have noticed your put downs as well. Anything to divert a thread, eh?

The whole ethos of this site GG is to share, exchange views, thoughts & ohh yes ‘Opinions’

Exactly. Not to tell everyone how they must think. I feel it is just bad manners and comes over to me as very aggressive. Obviously only my opinion and not everyone will share it but I get fed up with the sense of anger or hostility aimed at those who don't agree.

"We" do not all feel the same, think the same, etc. "We" can put our own point of view and, as Maizie said, they are going to be different.

GG _ I get fed up with the sense of anger or hostility aimed at those who don't agree.

I get fed up with the patronising put-downs aimed at those you disagree with.

You may be imagining anger and hostility GG. You really do not merit that much emotion.

GG You just told Lemongrove her post was. an opinion not a fact !!!!! make up your mind!

Yes GG it is my opinion, but am unsure why you would disagree with it.
Perhaps you are not old enough to remember that scenario ( constant strikes ) or perhaps you would be happy to have that back again?
The reasons for the strikes aside .....why would anybody disagree with my comment?
I think you have just got so used to complaining about my every post on GN that it has become your default position.?

I disagree with your comment, lemon because you have stated your opinion as if it were a fact. It can't possibly be a 'fact' as you have absolutely no way of knowing it to be true that no-one would want that situation back again.

If you'd present your opinions flagged up as opinions, perhaps by prefacing them with "I think", people might not find them quite so irritating.