The Labour Party

ps That's what Blair managed to do, even though he betrayed some of his principles by doing it.

"I don't think you will ever get a party without factions ".
Too true, GG. Especially these days as the whole world situation, and its effect on domestic politics, changes so fast.
But the general public needs clearcut policies to believe in and vote for.

Corbyn became an MP in 1983, Bobby Sands died in 1981 so his contact with the IRA was before he was an MP

GG, I didn't realise when you said ' many of us ask' you meant to say ' in my opinion many of us ask' , glad that's cleared up.

Quote [Primrose65 11/3/18 @11:15 am

I think, in a way, Grandad, you've hit the nail on the head regarding some of my issues with Corbyn.
He did talk to people. My problem is that he only ever spoke to one side of the argument. The problems in the Middle East are highly complex by anyone's standards. Openly supporting one side in a multi-faceted political/religious/regional power struggle is not bringing peace forward in my opinion.

I'm not too sure how Putin was created by the reaction of western leaders to Glasnost & Perestroika, but it sounds like an interesting theory. Could you expand on this a bit?] End Quote

Primrose, Jeremy Corbyn was an MP in the House of Commons at the time of his contact with leaders and others of the satellite nations in the Soviet union, leading figures in the middle east conflict and those within the IRA. Therefore, he would have been well aware of all the issues from a western/British government prospective and placed those points and positions to whoever he was talking to.

In the above no resolution of any problem or conflict is obtained by talking to persons who agree with the position you hold, as resolution is found in talking to people who oppose the position you hold.

In regard to the middle east, the position of all those Palestinians that suffered severe losses in the creation of Israel has always been at the centre of everything in this long running conflict. The pivotal point of that dispute has for many years been the Gaza Strip (now state), where Hamas has always held power and influence within the population. Therefore, in talking to Hamas a major step may be found in the resolution of the Palestinian population status in regard to those Israel losses. In that, Jeremy Corbyn was again very forward thinking in his establishment of links to Hamas and the talks he had with them.

In regard to the actions of Western governments in the collapse of the Soviet union, it would seem to me that Europe in particular was quick to offer assistance to former Soviet Union countries surrounding Russia (by example, quickly offering the prospect of EU membership to several) while totally ignoring Russia itself as it descended into economic and political chaos.

In the above, I feel that had Western countries stretched out a far stronger supportive hand to Gorbachev and the Russian people at that time we may have had a very different Russia to the one we have today.

I don't think you will ever get a party without factions Fennel. PR might help - I certainly think it would help the Tory Party as I think they have extremes that a wider apart than the LP. It would mean you had more parties but ones that were happy to be in coalition together.

I think constant updating and presentation is a problem for all parties but you do need to be able to able to identify the ethos of any party.

I too voted for him, I did think he represented my views, I was really upset to learn much about him which certaintly didn't represent my views.

To get back to the point of the thread -
I re- joined the LP in order to vote for Corbyn, as he seemed to represent the views I support. Though I admit I didn't go into that in detail.
However I always had a reservation, that he would make it a priority to unite the various groups in the Party, which he hasn't been able to do (yet). He needs to be more flexible, and make some concessions. There's still a lot of infighting.
As there is in the Conservative party.

I have realised this is now an "all about Annie" section and also I have drifted into Whataboutery. No more posts from me on this.

I'm not sure what you mean Annie. Who are the many? Why does a thought need to be spoken and who is doing that speaking? Have you joined MI5 as this all seems to be setting a mystery where one doesn't exist. Perhaps you could explain as all that happened was I picked up on a post Grandad made - on the forum - for all to see. And my reply was for all to see.

I still don't know why I bother replying to your posts. It does seem to me to be perverse at times - but that is my problem not yours.

Interesting GG, many of you ask why you should respond to my posts, as this has never been spoken of on this forum it can only be by private communication, should private conversations among members of this forum be brought into forum discussions. I would be concerned it I had a private conversation with you you would repeat it here.

He did talk to people. My problem is that he only ever spoke to one side of the argument.

You may be right Primrose but if this is the case isn't that because he is prepared to talk to the people no one else wants to? I thought we had had some good examples of this from others over the worlds very long history.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Just to move the conversation on - Lansman has pulled out of contest for General Secretary. Something to muse on after the festivities of Mother's Day.

Grandad1943
IMO you've chosen the wrong one to hold the fort
I believe durhamjen is a pacifist so therefore would be of no help in defending 'your' fort.

Never thought of this forum as a fort, are not forts built as a defence in war ?

Things might get really out of control otherwise lemon. I mean, as it's Mothers Day, we're unlikely to be spending time with our children and grandchildren, just sitting here typing (with a glass of Prosecco, admittedly) plotting to overthrow the Labour Party.
These things need to be monitored and controlled. Come on Jen, jump to it!

Can I have a lacky who'll watch the threads while I go out and get drunk?

Grandad says ‘ hold the fort’ durhamjen ‘and I will rejoin you later with further suport’ LOL indeed, from somebody who claims not to always even vote for the LP.

I am also having lunch ( with DH of almost 50 years) and AC and DGC but I shan’t be asking anybody to ‘hold the fort’
I mean, really, on a forum?

Granddad, you are showing total disrespect.

1. I did not say four people over the age of seventy

2. I did reply , if you chose to ignore my reply your problem not mine.

3. You ask why should anyone on this forum reply to my posts, easily answered, some do because they choose to, as I reply when I choose to.

I think, in a way, Grandad, you've hit the nail on the head regarding some of my issues with Corbyn.
He did talk to people. My problem is that he only ever spoke to one side of the argument. The problems in the Middle East are highly complex by anyone's standards. Openly supporting one side in a multi-faceted political/religious/regional power struggle is not bringing peace forward in my opinion.

I'm not too sure how Putin was created by the reaction of western leaders to Glasnost & Perestroika, but it sounds like an interesting theory. Could you expand on this a bit?

Anyway it is Mother's Day and our three daughters are taking my wife of fifty years out to lunch, which of course I shall be tagging along as well.

So hold the fort durhamjen and I will rejoin you later with further support against these anti Jeremy Corbyn "rants" if I am sober enough. (LOL)

Although, I hope this thread will be by then debating the Labour party in general which is its title.

durhamjen, there would seem to be very many derogatory statements made in this thread in regard to Jeremy Corbyn that appear to be very unsubstantiated. I did enjoy the statement that Jeremy Corby was photographed at an IRA funeral, then it appeared to be someone else, and now it is being stated that he was "airbrushed" out of the photograph.

The title of this thread is the Labour party. However it would appear that Jeremy Corbyn has such "magnetism" that there are those on this forum who are totally obsessed about him to the exclusion of all else in life.

Surly conversion to socialism cannot be far away for those persons. (LOL)

Quote [Anniebach
Corbyn supported the IRA, that is not how peace was gained in N.Ireland] End Quote.

Anniebach, Why should any person on this forum respond to anything you post. You have not yet answered questions put to you following your posting that "four people over the age of seventy run the Labour Party".

Not answering the above is treating myself and others with total disrespect. So, come on Anniebach tell us how four people over seventy are running the Labour party first, and then I will.respond to your statement that Jeremy Corbyn supported the IRA.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland

Very simple to read about his talks with Sinn Fein here.
Unless you know more than Channel 4 investigators could discover.
Why are you not angry that the Tory government talked to the IRA in secret?

Corbyn talked to the IRA, and persuaded them to continue talking to the UK government.