The Labour Party

The thread is not on anti-semitism.
Some of you have made it so, but the OP certainly didn't mention it.

"Some Labour ( Corbyn supporters always) may well find this subject distateful and so will any Jewish posters who are well aware that Labour has a bad rep in this area"
Au contraire, lemongrove.
I've come across various types of racism, including antisemitism ( whatever that is, Arabs are semites too ) in unexpected places, and it's not always related to political views.
Except maybe for some socialists to tend to support the underdog (Palestinians) and some tories to support the power of the white elite.
I've mentioned in the past that I've had racist views against 2 national groups, which I've tried to modify by reading, talking to them etc. But most people can't be bothered with that, or don't care enough to make the effort.

Posting a criticism of Rees Mogg with a link and including Doreen Lawrence is making political gain

As Doreen Lawrence has been brought into this thread which is on anti semitism , I will add the one newspaper who fought for justice for Stephen was the Daily Mail.

Some Labour ( Corbyn supporters always) may well find this subject distateful and so will any Jewish posters who are well aware that Labour has a bad rep in this area.

Grandad......and the above has what exactly to do with the Labour Party or anti semitism?
In fact, all you are doing is what you say you don’t like anyone doing! Making political gain by trying to smear JRM.
You didn’t think this through.

As Whitewave stated earlier in this thread, I find this topic very distasteful. I condemn thoroughly anyone making any kind of derogatory racist remarks, I also condemn anyone attempting to make political gain out of those remarks.

However, sadly, this type of behaviour seems to be prevalent in all political organizations at present, so I set out below the actions of William Rees-Mog who in a recent poll of Conservative party members was voted top as the next leader of the party. I lay out the Rees-Mog actions without comment.

In 2013, he was “guest of honour” and gave a speech to the annual dinner of Traditional Britain Group (TBG), which describes itself as “the home of the disillusioned patriot”. It wants to return black people to “their natural homelands”.

When Doreen Lawrence ( a black person) was made a peer, the Traditional Britain Group suggested that she be made to leave the country. Rees-Mogg latersought to dissociate himself from their views, but bear this in mind: the day before he went to talk to TBG, the anti-fascist organisation "Searchlight"warned him about them. However, he still went on to carry out the engagement the following day

A full report of the above can be found by following the below link:-
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/06/jacob-rees-mogg-isnt-old-fashioned-thoroughly-modern-bigot-suzanne-moore

Well said GracesGranMK2. My personal experience on other forums is that there is rarely any point in trying to discuss issues with people who wilfully distort and obfuscate. Once they make it clear that they are not going to reply to the points you have made, you might as well give up! I think it is one of the disadvantages of online forums - I find it is much easier to get people to clarify their position face-to-face.

Please do not resign from the Labour Party until after your Constituency Selection Meeting, especially in an all women seat. You will disenfranchise yourself. This is the Year of the Woman, the Centenary of Votes for Women and International Women's Week. Make every one of your votes count where it matters - the political sphere.

The four most powerful men in the Labour Party are heading for 70 years of age ,no I do not mean those aged 70 should be pensioned off.

Just these four are of the same time. No one of a different generation have any power in the running of the party

Well said Gracesgran.

In the usual hate-fest against the Labour Party posters have referenced the organised campaigns of those who wish attack any person or group supporting the position of the Palestinians against the Israeli government using the failings of individuals in a vile and despicable way.

I totally accept that there will be those who are anti-Semitic within the Labour Party. However, the Institute for Jewish Policy Research, in "the largest ever study of anti-Semitism" reported that the left is no more anti-Semitic than the country as a whole. The number of those on the left with real anti Jewish beliefs is tiny according to their study. But that tiny number are being used as a weapon. Where are the reports of anti-Semitism in the Tory party – because there will be anti-Semitic Conservatives too – their 5% of the population.

The LP accepts and repeats that there is no place in the party for actual anti-Semitism. They could do more. However, with 5% of the population being anti-Semitic, the country as a whole could also do more.

Against this we must also acknowledged that there are MSM moguls, owners and editors in this country who have an agenda to use every single one of that tiny number, who either believe in anti-Semitism or miss-speak their belief in anti-Zionism, as a weapon. They are using that very small number, who are in the wrong, to attack the larger number who wish to support Palestine's from a human rights point of view. These articles are produced in such a way as to act as a weapon against much larger bodies who may challenge what Israel is doing as a country. The articles they produce, some of which are so biased as to be scurrilous, have been used here in the self same attempt to attack not only those who are in the wrong - that tiny number - but in this case the whole Labour party.

This sort of attack against any large body is misconceived and the outrage misplaced. Not one of those using these reports to attack the LP has looked at anti-Semitism as a proportion of the country or of that party. When the country does not yet deal with education in this area why would we be surprised that a small number have these misplaced views or miss-speak the views they are trying to put forward. The disproportionate outrage on here has been used, as it is in the newspapers, to weaponise a small number of incidents as part – and a despicable part – of an attack the whole of the Labour Party.

I should not have raised this subject. I should have remembered those who will use anything to attack the LP as a whole, however contemptible the way in which they use it.

I don't believe you cannot see Primrose. This is your standard tactic and I am not going to rise to it any more.

Yes, it's my standard tactic of asking someone to talk around something they've written that makes no sense. I'm sure I'm not the only person thinking 'how can you weaponise something that is pretty disgusting anyway?' I don't think you've ever tried to explain anything I've ever asked about. But that's fine.

MaryEliza, I don't think there's many speaking out yet, sadly. I'm pretty fed up listening to people telling me I don't know the context around all the rubbish that Bergdorf and Madigan say. Jess Phillips is usually pretty sensible - it's sad that it's difficult and I'm not able to roll off a long list of names of female MPs. Of any party, to be honest.

I think there’s only Caroline Flint who has dared speak out - what are the other women Labour MPs ( you know the ones with vaginas) doing?

I agree Primrose re LP and women. The Tories seem to have gone quiet on self id although they set the hare running. They now seem to be reading the runes whereas the LP is just hurtling down the rabbit hole. The utter farce with Lily Madigan and Bergdorf. I will not vote Labout whilst they continue with this attack on women and the rights we have fought so long and hard for - there’s no debate on trans issues at all allowed in the party now - just edicts handed down on high from men and their transwomen allies ( complete with penises) who are now the only ‘women’ whose opinions count.

I don't believe you cannot see Primrose. This is your standard tactic and I am not going to rise to it any more.

GGMk2 I genuinely cannot see how you can weaponise something that is abhorrent.
I'm happy to be wrong, but would much prefer to understand what you meant.

TerriBull

I agree there a bit of problem for the LP with women, especially feminists, at the moment. I'm following the Mayday 4 women twitter - it will be interesting to see what happens.

You are wrong Primrose and, it seems, happy to be repeatedly rude in order to try and make a point.

I'm not sure what you mean by " the weaponising of anti-Semitism against the generally pro Palestinian element of the Labour Party" GGMk2.

Surely you don't need to weaponise anti-semitism at all. If there is anti-semitism, that's unacceptable, surely.

Are you confused between being anti-policies of Israel and anti-Jew? I wouldn't have expected that. Or is it OK to be hostile towards or prejudiced towards Jews if you're pro-Palestinian? If it's the latter that fits your opinion, then I understand what you mean, but really disagree with you.

If it's neither of those, then perhaps you'd help me understand what you mean.

Obviously many on this thread have no sympathy whatsoever for those in Palestine and are happy to use whatever weapon the MSM hands them.

There are also plenty of Holocaust deniers too out there.

I beg your pardon! Who are you throwing accusations at now!

Corbyn's web site has been cleansed of all the stuff he felt passionately about. I cared about many of his principles. As you say lemon he wants to be in No 10 more than anything. He is sanitising his image and persona and that seems very hypocritical. After all his years as a back-bencher (militant) rebel he now finds himself 'popular' and flavour of the moment- amongst the hard left and the naive young, easily impressed and still stuck at student politics level. He is trying to distance himself from his past and all he believed in.

The left wing stench of anti-semitism just won't go away though.

Corbyn is a serial ‘rebel’ going against the establishment was what he did...for years, any cause, any group, until he got a sniff of power!

‘Weaponising’........what a word, shudder.

Primrose some posters refuse to believe that Corbyn had plenty of very dodgy connections, but there is evidence to back it up, IRA or Palestinian groups etc.
There are also plenty of Holocaust deniers too out there.