So there will be NO border checks in Dover and Tunnel?

lemongrove- do write more- give us solutions, ideas- we need some more than ever.

So far, the only offer is plate recognition, as they use at the Dartford Tunnel- easy to check who the car belongs to- to bill or fine, etc - but how can that check who is driving, who is in the car, van lorry, or what, beast or substance?

If anyone has any clever ideas that could do the above- we can all agree to be fair, polite and discuss. But we need solutions, ideas not rhetoric or toys out of the pram.

Surely one of the main reasons for voting to leave was to have control of our borders? Now we seem to be looking at less control. If it causes delays and queues at Dover so be it - or should someone have thought about this before the referendum and come up with some workable solutions?

Yes of course they should and no they didn’t. They don’t care . They’re so obsessed with toeing the line of how everything will be worth all the billions that the details of how it’s done are insignificant. Those who point out the impracticalities and the huge expense are just sneered at. It’s delusional to think we we can getall those non existent “techie”things in place inside 12 months.

Today’s Richard North blog is all about borders.
www.eureferendum.com/default.aspx
Well worth a read.

jura the person who had (apparently)worked in C&E all his life had clearly either lost touch or did not work at a sufficient level to be aware of the extraordinary difficulty in any form of hand free technology, if as lemon pointed out that he knew that there would be no difficulty. Either that or he was mischief making.

There is nothing available that will replace the sort of border check that will be required, unless of course our government is not intending to taking back control of our borders?

The people currently working at the ports are very worried about the situation and what can be done.

Today will be interesting as Davis is meeting for the first time since before Christmas. The EU is determined to protect Ireland and allow them a veto. We don’t appear to have any answer to this intractable problem.

Do we fall out or comply?

That Richard North article was interesting.

So funny!. Anyone who thinks we're a load of moaners needs to read the comments on North's blogs. Remainers and Leavers united in glooom and fury... (justifiable glooom and fury)

Don't know why my tablet thinks that gloom has 3 o's

I do think the really difficult issues are far more about goods than people.

mamie yes you are right with regard to legal activities. But if controls are not put into place the rise in illegal activity of goods and people will be huge.

I have no idea what Grayling meant (did he?), but I don’t think anyone is seriously talking about removing existing border controls for people. I think people get very hung up on the le Touquet agreement and the possible removal of juxtaposed controls at Calais / the tunnel without understanding that this would not remove the national borders. The French border in France and the UK border in the UK is how it always used to be in Calais and Dover and how it still is at Dieppe, Le Havre, Ouistreham etc. Controls are very tight at these ports, they don’t just wave people through.
The queues would be longer, especially at the tunnel (though I suppose border checks could be done on the train as happens elsewhere).

The M20 is going to be the lorry park not sure how far they intend for it to stretch back

Mamie- what he said was clear though - no checks as it is not possible and would cause unbearable queues. And he was only talking about France to UK- what about t'other way- I love my French neighbours, but we all know how awkward they can be, and how strong the Unions are, with go-slow and strikes. If they decide to make things difficult - we won't be able to export much at all, to our main market- and they could find all sorts of excuses for not allowing meat or beasts, or any fruit, veg, cheeses, etc- as we will no longer be part of the EU health/safety/security agreements.

Geography here is the key, the physical landscape for port to Caen/Le Havre, Dieppe is totally different to Dover.

In Dover, there is a very NARROW passage between the Channel and the Cliffs- there just is NOT the physical space to accomodate checks - none- whereas there is plenty on the French side, no cliffs, outside town, either side for Ferry and Tunnel.

We do that journey, via Calais, either Tunnel or Ferry many times a year- the only reason it flows, most of the time- is that all checks, including UK checks, are done in Calais, NOT Dover (where there is NO space to accomodate such).

Unless the French build special facilities there can be no food products go through from Dover.

Not clear at this point where they can go? Anyone know where food entry facilities/points are in the EU?

Via Harwich to Hook of Holland? (not sure)

I assume that nothing will stop traffic the other way?

Jura there is even less space in Ouistreham, it is right in the middle of the town. ?
Like us you must have travelled the Dover Calais route many many times before the introduction of juxtaposed controls. The old controls are still there in Dover, in fact they are still staffed to a degree.
I agree absolutely that would be massive queues for goods and the checks (phytosanitary etc) would be horrendous.
I really do not think Grayling was talking about abandoning the existing checks for people. Even if he was I don’t think anyone else is. It would make no sense at all. I am not even sure Macron will abandon Le Touquet tbh.

This what Grayling said on Question Time last Thursday. Only lorries were mentioned.

people do travel in lorries ! for sure.

And a lot more will if lorries are not checked thoroughly.

In Calais they check with carbon-dioxyde probes, dogs, by emptying lorries and emptying cases, etc.

And if course illegal substances, food, - the list is endless.

'nobody wanted to engage with because they didn’t fit in with the ‘OMG we are going to Hell in a handcart’ type of posts.'

I am so sorry lemongrove, but tbh, some of us are truly and really concerned that we are - and not even once, have you even attempted to propose any solution at all.

The poster you talk about seemed to think that technology/plate recognition would solve the problems of illegal imports of every kind, including illegal immigrants and cattle, beast, dangerous substances, etc, etc, etc.

And it won't and can't - that is totally clear. As I live so close to a border, several of my neighbours are customs officers- and they just cannot believe what is being proposed here and just shake their head.

Do you really think that we wish the UK to go to hell in a handcart ??? Really. Because if and when, my kids and grandkids will go with it - and we will too as we have no income at all apart from UK pensions, already down by 50%.

It is because we love the UK, because part of our heart and soul, and family and friends, and total income are there- that we cannot stay silent and watch the above- without trying everything we can to somehow stop this tragic (and yes, no exageration there) madness.