Corbyn's Magnetism

Oh joy! The well educated old Etonian Nix referee to nxxxxxs in an e-mail when talking of two black clients. Leaves a nasty taste in your mouth doesn’t it?

What is it with Eton? Look at the product - grim isn’t it?

Let’s trace Tory involvement with SCL and Cambridge Analytica.

OK

Parent company of CA is SCL (I haven’t bothered to do a company search, I assume the information I am reading is correct.

There are deep connections between this group and the Tory party the military, and the royals. We shall see that board members include a number of Lords, Tory mps and military personnel as well as defence contractors.

President is Geoffrey Pattie a former Tory MP.
Roger Gabb another company director donated £500000 to the Tories in 2006. Gabb was a big player in the leave campaign and was fined by the electoral commission for non-disclosure.
Company chairman Julian Wheatland is a Try supporter and chairman of the Oxford Conservative Association.
Vincent Tchenguiz the single biggest shareholde4 is also a Tory donator.
Jonathan Marland a Tory Party Treasurer has funded the company
This barely scraps the surface of Tory involvemen5 in the company which is so involved with the wholesale harvestin* of individuals data for it own nefarious purposes
Mark Turnball someone on the channel 4 video has also been implicated in the production of fake al-Qaeda videos.

We are beginning to find evidence of wholesale data being used to rig elections, but not by Russia or Iran but by the uk establishment who have Eton, wealth and the Tory government in common.

POGS yes, you are probably right that many social media are used in that way. My point, or one of them, is how sad it is that people as so stupid? gullible? full of prejudices? that they can be manipulated so easily.

I’ve no doubt that Putin has a similar set up so my comments might have been biased, happy to admit that.

But as WW said this particular scandal that’s unravelling has right wing fingerprints all over it.

I’m not even an adequate political analysts nor can I muster arguments as can those who have more facts at their fingertips, but this is an especially disgraceful incident.

John Snow tweeted

“It is unbelievable that the UKs information Commissioner is still waiting to see a judge who will grant a warrant to enter Cambridge Analytica premises. By the time they get in there how much evidence will be let?

I have visions of whole computers being moved out overnight!!

No matter how much the right wing bluff and bluster, the fact is that CA has been found and suspected of using millions of individuals data to try to rig an election and referendum.

The Tory party are all over the company and we know that they have given at least £700000 to the Tory party.

If nothing else it is extremely embarrassing. We also know that a judge has been difficult to pin down - funny that- I am unaware that this has never happened before and much lesser mortals have had no trouble in obtaining a warrant.

Old Meg

"GG2 the Cambridge Analytica scandal that is unravelling makes it apparent how easily those with an political agenda (eg run a smear campaign against eg Clinton/ Corbyn) can influence voters. "
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Do you believe the Cambridge Analitica story is not replicated in other forms e.g

Face Book for example is used by various political Parties /Organisations to harness information to target users.

Links and information' passed on ' between users are provided by sites that have an incestuous connection to the party doing the smearing. They rely on those receiving regular information, updates , regulars to their sites/forum to pass on their propaganda , smears and at times fake news. It's what they are there for.

Bots and Web Spidering have infiltrated Social Networks?

Smearing is not the domain of the left or right of politics but it is worth remembering facts are facts and they cannot be questioned as to the truth , although some will try their damnedest to do so.

This is a good point Primrose

Much better than thinking that every person who thinks differently to you has been manipulated emotionally and then criticising them for it!

It's amazing how many young Corbyn supporters only have the "Oh you read the Daily Mail" as a retort to people who worry about Corbyn's ability to lead his own party, never mind the country.

It's quite pathetic. My retort should be "Oh so you have been brainwashed by the Morning Star then have you?" - the paper founded by the Communist Party.

I have not been manipulated by anyone or anything in forming my views. It could just be that those of us who criticise Corbyn watch the news, know their history, look at Corbyn's record and read a number of left and right wing sources and articles in forming their opinions. I know I do and the lazy, oft-repeated slur "You've been manipulated" must then also apply to those who hold opinions different from mine?

They suck up pro-Corbyn pieces because they suit their agenda. It works both ways.

Day 6 I agree with you - but this is exactly how Corbyn behaves. He demands that someone does something that they're doing already and then tries to take some sort of credit for it. I keep hoping that someone will call him out on it - ask if he has evidence that the government is not following the agreed process, why does he need to demand that it is.

As I've said before, there's no need to smear Corbyn. He does that himself. I hope this has been a turning point for the more moderate MPs.

I'm quite aware of that OldMeg, which is why I said they couldn't move a server from the rack. Why are you assuming I know nothing about this or that I'm defending CA?
This is not a story about technology capability or forensics, it's about governance and ethics, in my opinion.

"Corbyn is following the rule of law (CWC) over the chemical attack, nothing more and nothing less."

Erm, I suspect the Conservative government is also following the rule of law with regards to chemical weapons.

This wasn't a Corbyn bright idea. It's a process that must be followed and of course the government is using appropriate channels to carry out investigations.

The fact remains that in the Commons Corbyn did not immediately support the government when all Labour MPs did, when the house was united as one against a dastardly act of terrorism on British soil.

His own MPs were angered by his lack of support too. This is not a smear campaign. Corbyn managed to make people question his loyalty to the UK all on his own.

THAT is what makes Corbyn and his far left henchmen politicians not to be trusted to run the country.

We’re not talking about wiping files off your Microsoft PC or Apple Mac here!

These are experts who build their own systems.

Someone’s been reading too many detective novels. Of course all traces can be wiped from data bases that you have designed and built youtself.

That's just too funny.
They can't even unplug a server from the rack without it leaving a footprint. I doubt that the data was even held in a database to be honest - the whole point of machine learning is that it works on unstructured data.
And actually, even if it was in a database, then the database management software would make it even easier to find.

There are ways of wiping all information from computers

Not really. They all leave traces and digital fingerprints though trisher. Computer forensics people can do some pretty amazing stuff. People have even tried to write software now that triggers actions to corrupt forensic investigations when they're doing something dodgy and there's a risk that their computers will be seized.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by interfering with the democratic process. Where do you draw the line on how to advertise to people? This is not just an issue for politics. People have always been 'manipulated' - a rousing speech, a clever advert. Who decides what part of people's perception is OK to influence and how?

CA is just the first. There are lots of companies using the same approach - in politics, in advertising and in business.

The nudge unit absolutely exists - it's run by David Halpern and Thaler advised both Cameron and Obama.
www.behaviouralinsights.co.uk/people/dr-david-halpern/

Someone’s been reading too many detective novels. Of course all traces can be wiped from data bases that you have designed and built youtself.

And as for trying to defend CA, that speaks for itself.

primrose well done for completing your module. When do you hope to graduate, what will your degree give you?

I think most of us are very aware of Cambridge Analytica, it’s clients and ownership.

Now let’s answer the rest of your post.

It is a pity that you personalise your reply as it makes it difficult to answer your argument. I will however ignore the personalization and try to deal with it nevertheless.

When mentioning Trump and Brexit, I was using CAs words in saying that they deal with emotional manipulation. I however feel that until more research is done into their tactics it isn’t proven one way or the other. But it is clear that clients are willing* to invest millions of £/$ into CA. Presumably they are convinced that their claim works.

With regard to Cameron. Cameron is considered one of the worse pms this country has been unlucky enough to have, and his judgement on a number of issues have come under severe criticism.

The ‘nudge’ unit as you described it never existed did it?

There are ways of wiping all information from computers Primrose65 you can also write over data so that previous stuff is unavailable. Regardless of if you support Trump or Brexit do you find it acceptable that a company should be able to interfere in the democratic process? There is a difference between a political party manipulating images and publishing them, as their political bias is obvious, and a company doing it surreptitiously.

I don't think CA are 'open and honest' at all. I don't think any private company is open. There's no point in them trying to 'wipe everything' as that can be retrieved unless they take a hammer to the hard disks, which would be pretty incriminating. I think there should be a process for the ICO to follow, but I think they should be able to speed that up a bit, so they can get the access they need faster. My only thought is that if they are so good at manipulating people, they are not using their skills for their own benefit in this situation.

Primrose65 what do you think about CA refusing to admit the Information commisioner, forcing her to seek a high Court injunction to access their data? Surely if they were as open and honest as they try to pretend they would have cooperated. Or did they need the time to wipe things they didn't want people to know about?

Cambridge Analytica has had many clients. What they do is based on the work of Daniel Kahneman, who won a Nobel Prize in 2002 and on others who have built on his work. The Micheal Lewis book is actually about when he met Kahneman. I don't think I'm muddled at all.

A good example of bias is mentioning Brexit and Trump as clients of Cambridge Analytica then saying it's not proven. You disagree with both of these, CA helped these, so CA are bad. Even if they were not clients. I think that's a smear wrapped in a bias! I'm not defending CA in any way - I would imagine they've done far worse than work on a Brexit campaign.

Cameron is a fan of Thaler and the Nudge Unit helped to raise the amount of tax collected really quickly and easily using some of his work, which I think is a good thing. Why is it bad that he was 'a fan'. Again, you're highlighting your own bias.

If you think the LP don't use this, you're wrong. From simple photoshopping of Liz Kendall with a Tory rosette during the Leader election in 2015 (which was Lansman) to very sophisticated videos.

Very happy to discuss behavioural economics as I did a module on this last year.

I believe Cameron was a fan of those publications

You seem to be muddling two different issues here primrose

First in relation to emotional manipulation, CA have admitted how successfully they have used it in both the Trump election and the Brexit referendum.
That remains to be proven, although I recognised its use in the referendum.

Second is the issue of the down right lies and constant perversion of the truth and bias - that is proven and is as I said being recognised and rejected by the young. A clear example of that is that every time a MSM publication does so Corbyn gains more support from the young. It certainly was the case before the last GE

I'm not sure what posters think is fake news?
A satirical magazine?

For anyone interested in how people could be (and are) manipulated I can really recommend a couple of books on behavioural psychology that are very accessible and a decent read.

Nudge by Richard Thaler and The Undoing Project by Michael Lewis.

Much better than thinking that every person who thinks differently to you has been manipulated emotionally and then criticising them for it! If you genuinely think this is what is happening to posters on this forum, you shouldn't persecute or ridicule the victims of this coercion and manipulation surely.

Yes I saw that dj. It is heart warming to see that the fight back is being successful though with regard to the perversion of the truth being dished out to our young. They are recognisin* it for what it is.

Another thing I noticed that CA said was that Israel was involved because their undercover work is very effective.

Talking about the rubbish the young are being sold, CA took over websites attached to universities.

Primrose, your link on the Momentum activist was so funny but there is the sad side that in truth this is the rubbish the young are being sold