Corbyn's Elasticity

Amiebatch, Day6, Jeremy Corbyn would state that it is for the constituency party's to decide on the deselection or not of their MPs, as that is exactly what the process entails.

Long gone are the days when the Blair administration decidedly would represent any Constituency from Central office. So, why would Jeremy Corbyn want to say anything different to what he has started, as it for the local parties to decide, and that for me is exactly as it should be

The above is called democracy.

It would seem to many that Jeremy Corbyn has had a good week. The allegation that he met the "wrong kind of Jewish people" has badly backfired on those in the media that made the those charges.

Along with the foregoing, it appears that Corbyn may well have been correct to question the outright assertion that the Russian Government was unquestionably responsible for the Salisbury attack. In that, Boris Johnson has had to delete a tweet advising that Porton Down could definitely state where the nerve agent was produced when a senior operations director at the establishment stated they could not.

I, like many feel that In all likelihood the Russian government was involved with the attack in Salisbury. However, questions begin to appear that seem to have few answers. By example to the foregoing, several weapons experts have advised that had the nerve agent been of full military grade as stated by the British government, then not only would the Skripals have died within minutes of coming into contact with the agent, but also very many other people in Salisbury that day also.

So, growing questions in the above matter that make the Government position look "just a little ragged around the edges". However, should the government's case unravel further, then this incident could turn into the biggest British embarrassment since the Suez fiasco in 1956.

The above would certainly be the end of Theresa Mays government, which would probably not result in a general election, but a huge political crisis on top of Brexit and all that is going badly in that.

Second, the media was speculating about things in Salisbury as the situation there was naturally under tight control once the identity of the victims became apparent.Newspapers were doing a mixture of facts and speculation, which is why reports varied.

Eloethan first of all, was it Aikenhead that first spoke to Johnson? He may be the Head but isn’t one of the scientists that tested the nerve agent.The government were told it was a known nerve agent originally produced by Russia.Also that it was ‘State Grade’ which means no group could have produced it.So, what has changed, these statements still hold true, which, taken with other intelligence all points to Russia.
I think Aikenhead is just stating what he has been told by his experts.How could anyone think that it isn’t Russia, who else could it be ( without getting into loony conspiracy scenarios.)
An originally manufactured nerve agent by Russia, a known way of disposing of ‘traitors’ and the victims being an ex spy double agent and his daughter.Hmmm, let me see?

I'll can tell you why I think some things happened the way they did.
Why did they report the location of the contamination of the police officer incorrectly at the time? Probably because the journalists were speculating. If they had reported that a police officer was also on life support, they have no idea how he was contaminated, it would have caused a massive panic.

I've got no idea which photo you're asking about, so I'll pass on that.

I'd imagine that people panicked a bit anyway. Some people would have gone home, googled nerve gas symptoms and then thought they had them and gone to hospital. Other people would have been marked as 'possible' just to be on the safe side. The doctors would not have had a clue at that point that this was an isolated attack. Err on the side of caution?

I'm not sure why there are so many conflicting statements, however, we don't know how it was administered, which could impact how effective it is. We don't know how much was administered or at what 'strength'. We don't know how old the agent was - it would deteriorate over time. We don't know how the patients have been treated and how quickly. This would impact the outcome.

Would people who come into contact with the Skripals become ill? Is it transferred through sweat, breath, blood once you're contaminated? Or once it's in, does it not come out (if you see what I mean) or does it sweat out in non-toxic doses, or the chemical structure is altered by the body. I have no idea.

I don't expect we'll ever know everything, but this is real life, there will be unanswered questions and people may not want to give interviews or be photoed. They have a right to privacy, especially after a traumatic event.

whitewave I hope you will reconsider what appears to be your decision to leave Gransnet.

Whilst it can be hurtful and annoying when negative posts are directed at you, in reality Gransnetters don't know you and can't touch you. What matters is what you know about yourself and what your family, friends and colleagues know of, and think of, you - not what faceless strangers think they know about you.

Responding to some other points:

It isn't Corbyn or Williamson who should be the focus of the issue re Porton Down's findings - they merely reacted to the statements of other people. Boris Johnson said categorically, as shown on Sky News, that scientists at Porton Down had confirmed to him that the nerve agent used in this incident was Russian. But Gary Aikenhead, the CEO at Porton Down, later said:

"We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent.

"We have not identified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific info to government who have then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions you have come to.

"It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is, we identified that it is from this particular family [Novichok] and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured."

Are you seriously saying that even though these two statements are completely at odds, politicians should not comment and those that do are somehow behaving improperly? I think Corbyn was pretty charitable in his description of Johnson's statement being a mere "exaggerration".

(Incidentally, Gary Aikenhead has only been in post since the beginning of this year - "He has previously held senior global positions at Sepura and at Motorola Solutions, where he had commercial responsibility for sales, services, operations and product management" - an odd resume for a man appointed as CEO in such a highly sensitive/high security sector)

It is a very serious matter to accuse another country's government of authorising a murder, particularly a murder on foreign soil. Some people feel that a sensible course of action would be for a government to hold its horses and do a proper investigation of all the events leading up to, during and after the incident and carry out a thorough analysis of all the evidence.

There are many issues that perplex me re this incident.

Why were we initially told that the police officer was taken ill after trying to help the Skripals when they were found collapsed? We were later informed that the police officer had not attended to the Skripals but was most likely to have come into contact with the substance at the Skripals' home. Was nobody aware of this when they made the first report and why are so few details available re verifiable timings?

Why has there been no information released as to the person who took the photograph of the Skripals - his image can be seen in the mirror?

Given that whoever administered this nerve gas is - or was - presumably on the loose somewhere - a dangerous assassin and an enemy of the British people - why was there no manhunt/no CCTV footage shown? It's almost as if the person who carried out this act is an irrelevance, but surely he or she would have vital information as to who they were working for?

Why was it initially reported that between 21 and 40 people had been adversely affected by the nerve gas, something later denied in a letter from a hospital consultant who said that, whilst several concerned people attended at the hospital, none was found to show any indication of nerve gas poisoning?

Why have there been so many conflicting statements about the toxicity of the nerve agent? There were initially reports that said that, so far as nerve agents go, it was not one of the most toxic and was not even on the scientists "top ten" list. Conversely, an expert on a Channel 4 programme devoted to the subject and fronted by Matt Frei said something to the effect that, on the contrary, it was 1,000 times more dangerous than Sarin. If that is the case, I wonder why the three people who presumably came into direct contact with it are not dead and why no one who had been in the vicinity of these three people
was taken ill. The police officer has been reported as being released from hospital, the young woman has apparently made a miraculous recovery, and it appears even Mr Skripal has improved. But no photos of any of them, or interviews.

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I would disagree trisher. I think that it's unusual for a government to ever have concrete and definite evidence in situations like this. I'd guess that they weigh up the evidence from multiple sources, possible talk to other leaders and then take a view.

I also think that the intelligence agencies have probably learnt a lot since Iraq. I have no idea whether their intelligence was misinterpreted at the time or if they got something badly wrong. They're civil servants after all - there would have been some sort of process to learn lessons. Same as I think it's pretty ridiculous blaming the current LP for Iraq - even though some LP MPs were in government then. They both have different leaders and some different staff. They have both changed.

Corbyn's week has just got worse because of this.

What politician in his right mind appears on Russian tv acting as a stooge for Putin?

I agree with every word.Well said

Lammey has been interviewed today of the murders in London, the teenage girl who was shot as from his constituency. This man seems to be a good MP yet when he joined the demo at Westminster there were calls for deselection, Corbyn could have defended this man but he just dismissed it - it's up to the the local party,

When he lost his seat in 2015 Corbyn said it was the worse shock of the night. Seems he is devoted to Corbyn and i think he speaks for Corbyn , says to the media what Corbyn wants to say but can't ,a puppet .

Except he's right isn't he? Boris Johnson lied about Porton Down. The intelligence service did present a dodgy dossier that took us into a war in Iraq, so has a record of misinformation. And any sensible person waits until there is definite and concrete evidence. Unless of course they are using the situation to make political headway.

Primrose....... what a disgrace Chris Williams is! Just when you think Corbyn’s Labour cannot get any worse, it just did.

One is that those who shout loudest and most often are beginning to influence the moderators from doing their job in a neutral and fair way.
I don't think so, whitewave - and none of them have intervened on the thread so far, have they? Not as far as I know.

I hope it's just that you're having a bad day and will be back again.

Nice coat too Anniebach, although I am a bit - is it a coat of many colours?

It looks like Chris Williamson has been on Russian TV, saying the UK intelligence agencies don't have a particularly good reputation internationally, the UK govt used Skripal as a diversion as it was convenient. The link is to the video on twitter - you can ignore the Russian subtitles! It's marked up as Russia Today/Tass so it looks like it's OK for MPs to still work with Russian state TV to say how bad the UK govt is.

"These incidents are increasingly undermining the credibility of Britain."
British MP Chris Williamson exposes the UK government in the Skripalja case.
twitter.com/tass_agency/status/981821018032492544

Are you really Diana Rigg Annie.?

I think that whitewaves ‘last post’ is a nonsense actually.The mods only take down things that need taking down.
There is no more ‘nastiness’ on GN there there was at least two years ago, since the referendum it went up a notch or two that’s all. The Corbyn supporters call anyone ( even other Labour voters) right wing! The so called jokes were sick btw.
Why do posters who flounce off always make big announcements?

Whitwave,I do so hope you continue to post, your opinions are always a good counter balance to some of the dominating contributors on the political threads.

? x. My hair a little lighter , well a sort of very grey lighter !

That is a great image, such a good disguise for you in the life as a spy Annie lol x

That is so me ?

A spy How glamorous!

Anniebach - License to post.

I have been called not only right wing but a Tory spy ?