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Corbyn's Elasticity

(1000 Posts)
Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 21:23:27

A continuation of Momentum/Intertia/Magnetism.

Elastic? Plastic? Or at breaking point?

A thread for Corbyn lovers & haters

lemongrove Wed 28-Mar-18 21:27:24

I hadn’t thought of Corbyn as a rubber band but it makes sense.....hanging about limply most of the time.grin

lemongrove Wed 28-Mar-18 21:28:07

Or pinging from one debacle to another.

Day6 Wed 28-Mar-18 21:33:58

Dammit. I wanted the alliteration of Corbyn's Cock-Ups. grin

It would have been suitable given the last few weeks.

I suppose the man is flexible as far as his convictions are concerned, so elasticity works too.

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 21:41:13

I'm sorry Day6 I did like Cock Ups. And I really liked Corbychev. Next thread - Comrade Corbychev's Cock-Ups?

lemongrove Wed 28-Mar-18 21:44:50

Careful! We will be accused of not taking things seriously in a minute.grin

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 21:45:37

He's not doing very well with the Jewish community. There's another demo planned and I suspect it's going to be bigger than last time. The coverage of the last demo has reached the US too - apparently was on CNN. That's not classy image to present to the world.

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 21:47:07

Oh well, lemon. I think I've been accused of worse! grin

I accidentally typed 'gin' then, instead of 'grin'. I think it's time for a nightcap. wine

Grandad1943 Wed 28-Mar-18 22:01:15

Just to continue what I was about to post in the last thread.
Jeremy Corbyn or a member of the General Executive would be under obligation to engage with the Jewish Voice for Labour if they pay affiliation to the Labour Party

The Board of Deputies could request that Corbyn engages with them, but that is all they can do if they are not affiliated to the Labour movement.

At least that is how I would see it ?

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 22:13:04

There are a few different group representing the community, I believe Grandad and it all gets rather complicated. It's a bit like that Monty Python sketch sometimes!
JVL - Jewish Voice for Labour have 2 aims - pro-Palestine and to counter claims of anti-semitism in the LP. They were set up last summer and Unite have affiliated to them. You don't need to be Jewish to be a member. It's a bit of a misnomer really, I think. Even the people running it openly say they are totally secular.

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 22:15:41

Christine Shawcroft has resigned her post.
Only seems like yesterday we were saying goodbye to Ann Black.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 28-Mar-18 22:19:26

Corbyn has done an interview. He's defended Jewish Voice for Labour, which is unlikely to go down well with JLC & Board of Deputies, who asked Corbyn today to engage with main (not fringe) Jewish groups.

This is a really strange, and I would say worrying, view of democracy. Isn't this what has happened in the past - shutting down the voices you don't want to hear; proscribing some groups while letting others thrive? Very, very sad to see such things written on here.

petra Wed 28-Mar-18 22:26:44

I think of that Monty Python sketch every time I read the politics thread grin

Anniebach Wed 28-Mar-18 22:29:03

Shawcroft defended a holocaust denier , when given her post she had Corbyn backing her

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 22:39:09

gg It's just a statement of fact. I didn't say any group should be proscribed. I said he's defended them, which he did. I said that wouldn't go down well with other groups, which it won't.

I think it's fair enough that main groups ask to engage with him. The JVL meet up with him - why is he not meeting them all? I couldn't agree more about people shutting down democracy.

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 22:47:16

Annie Yes, exactly. Apparently, she sent an email saying his post was taken out of context but she didn't see it or have enough information. There's so many 'didn't see anything/didn't look at it' excuses. I think they are mixing up antisemitism and astigmatism.

Chewbacca Wed 28-Mar-18 23:01:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

petra Wed 28-Mar-18 23:05:28

Oh Chewbacca the that is sooooo good. Keep them coming.

Grandad1943 Wed 28-Mar-18 23:20:16

I believe that whatever the future is for Jeremy Corbyn the Labour party has irreversibly changed by way of re-engaging with its trade union roots. The Conservatives by way of their anti- trade union legislation did everything they could to destroy that movement, but it has survived, which has demonstrated great resilience and commitment by those members for very many years in the wilderness.

Despite all the above, in league with Momentum (which I believe was also born out of grassroots trade unionists) those unions are once again at the forefront of radical political change for the benefit of working people. In that, this Labour party is no longer the party of the Blair era with the exception of its name and all within it should accept that fact or move on.

The grassroots now have once again the overall voice in the Labour movement and that for better or for worse has to be to the benefit of the body politic in Britain. In the foreseeable future no one will be able to state credibly that there is not enough gap in policy between the two major parties, as was the case in 2010 and 2014.

The Labour party has changed in a radically changing economic and employment world, and it has yet to be seen if the Conservative party can do likewise.

Anyway, after a ten day holiday, I will return to work tomorrow. I went down to the office this afternoon for an hour just to see the state of my desk, OMG. So if any forum member has any experience in industrial safety, they are welcome to join me in working over the bank holiday as I will only be too glad to provide them with secure well paid employment over that period (LOL)

Many thanks to those who administer this forum, as it is a great tribute to you all and thoroughly enjoyable to those of us who post on it.

By the way, having just returned from a ten day holiday in South Africa, this country has no problems at all with racism in my experience.

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 23:24:36

Chewbacca grin That is quite superb and yet moderately disturbing. I may have weird dreams tonight!

Primrose65 Wed 28-Mar-18 23:36:30

Grandad Here's a tin foil hat theory and I'd like the benefit of your opinion. And everyone else, too, of course, if you're interested. smile
I think it's reasonable to assume that at the start of Momentum, they had Unite support, and possibly other unions too. I know Corbyn was not the first choice of candidate to back and promote for Lansman, but it was a decision made and he's stuck with it.
But recently, I think there's been a bit of a falling out between Lansman and Unite. Lansman was told to step aside in the NEC gen sec race, so that Jennie Formby could take it. Christine Shawcroft made a series of social media posts criticising the Unions and suggesting that Labour should cut union links. Such a bizarre thing to say. She's now off the NEC disputes panel and people are calling for her to be expelled from the party.

I'm wondering if every time I've called Corbyn a useful idiot, it should have been Lansman, who has now served his purpose and is no longer needed.

What do you think? Have I been at the cooking sherry? Or are the far left, Momentum and the unions all having a conkers match over who really runs the party?

Day6 Thu 29-Mar-18 01:28:49

Granddad - those unions are once again at the forefront of radical political change for the benefit of working people. In that, this Labour party is no longer the party of the Blair era with the exception of its name and all within it should accept that fact or move on

So what radical political change do we need exactly?
I as watching Regency on BBC4 tonight and Henry (the Orator) Hunt and Arthur Thistlewood were mentioned. They wanted radical reform for the working classes and Parliamentary reform too, and rightly so. The Peterloo Massacre was a disgraceful incident but it made me think and be thankful for how far we've moved on.

But what power block are hard left Labour out to topple now? The rich by any chance? Where will the revolution begin?

Are far left parties like Labour becoming an irrelevance?

The party has been in slow decline and now Corbyn is dragging it kicking and screaming to the far left. American Jack Salmon wrote in The Hill last year -

Socialism struggles for a reason to exist in the 21st Century

"Political parties created during the age of mass industrialization are struggling for relevance in today’s changing labor market, as more people are self-employed and technology continues to replace unskilled labor."

"While the factory and the railways forged the age of the worker; the internet has swung the pendulum back in the other direction, making today the age of the consumer. As the Labour Party remains under the occupation of an aggressive, hard-left elite from the politics of yesteryear, the party will continue to decline as a serious force in British politics."

"The young, quixotic and radically left-wing grassroots members who placed Corbyn in his position of power are more interested in purging "Blairites" than winning elections. With their mandate, Corbyn is content to allow the Labour Party to perish for his own benefit.

"The party has been in slow decline since peaking in its glory days under Tony Blair. The Labour Party thrived when it seized the center ground, moving away from its infatuation with socialism and focusing instead on pragmatic issues and pro-growth economics."

Salmon continues regarding the far left support of Corbyn. "This is his die-hard, left-wing supporter base, and their concern is not with winning elections."

"Corbyn’s hard left supporters are a breakthrough phenomena which no British Trotskyist movement has ever achieved. "

Their interest is not in holding the reins of parliamentary power because they have a deep loathing for this institution which they regard as a tool of the bourgeoisie." (I disagree there. The hard left want power, but I don't see them as a force for good, more a force of chaos, debt and destruction.)

"At this stage, perhaps the only way the centre-left can re-emerge from this socialist hijacking is to split. If this was to happen, it would most likely reflect the kind of split we saw within the French Socialist Party, whereby Emmanuel Macron and the moderate politicians formed a separate breakaway political party. "

Will Labour moderates rise up? They have had plenty of chances. I am disappointed that some big names within Labour now pay lip service to the Trotskyist element and will take the money, save their seats and allow the hard left to take the party

Thought provoking, I thought.

Anniebach Thu 29-Mar-18 03:16:00

But if the labour moderates stood up they would be deselected and their seat taken by the hard left . If they started a new party how would they fund it? The Gang of Four failed and in Labours wilderness years . Do they walk away from the party ? Some who joined the demo at Westminster are being threatened with deselection, Corbyn dismissed this as nothing to do with him it was for local,parties to decide, his chance to show the demo did give him cause for concern? He isn't concerned .

Day6 Thu 29-Mar-18 06:38:45

It is very worrying Annie.
I know many Labour supporters who do not trust or like the present shape of the Party.

GracesGranMK2 Thu 29-Mar-18 08:46:58

Where were your quotes from Day6?

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