78 year old arrested for murder

I'm not ruining my beautiful saucepans.

Oops! Sorry!
I almost forgot myself there.
Ahem!

Now MissA, let's not bring humour into our lives

I suppose its fair to say that if you managed to tie up the intruder, it wouldn't then justify beating them to death with a saucepan.

Do we act out of instinct, fear, anger or emotion when faced with intruders in our home?
I think I would.

The actual laws surrounding my immediate action would not be at the forefront of my mind.
Survival would be.

Yes, it means the onus is on you to decide what the persons intentions are.

It's a real odd area isn't it, "reasonable force"... I keep wondering if this had happened in the USA and the homeowner had shot and killed the intruder, would that have been accepted as self defence?
I'm not objecting to the process of course, as I said early on, I'm relieved to live in a country where the police follow the legal procedures.

You're allowed to use 'reasonable force' when someone is in your home, as far as I know. ((Although I dont know much)
How you're supposed to decide in advance what will be 'reasonable' I also don't know.

Jalima All I know is that someone broke into our home my DH would certainly defend both me and our property with vigour!! We are, incidentally 78 and 75 years old. If these two people hadn't broken in in the first place, (it is after all a crime!) this incident would never have happened. They're completely responsible for their own misfortune and maybe others will learn by it.

From hildajenni's link:

You don’t have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself in your home.

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger
pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police

We don't know the exact circumstances but it doesn't sound as if the householder did anything that could result in a prosecution.

If a householder was aged 30, with a disabled wife helpless upstairs at the mercy of another intruder and he was being attacked by the other intruder with a screwdriver then I would feel no different.

Although perhaps a 30 year old could have overcome a young intruder, found some handy rope (we all keep some in the kitchen, don't we, in case of this type of emergency), tied him up, rushed upstairs and tackled the other intruder and tied him up too before calling the police and subsequently being arrested for causing bodily harm or for impeding a burglar in the course of his work.

Would we have felt different if the man involved in this incident had been aged 30 rather than 78?

Someone has died in suspicious circumstances. The police have to investigate thoroughly before they can decide what to do. In the meanwhile they have arrested the person who committed the act that caused the death to question him and have subsequently given him bail, not a common occurrence in murder cases - and that suggests the police have taken the circumstances of the case into consideration. They have followed all the proper procedures. It happens to many people every day for all kinds of crimes. They are later cleared of the offence they have been charged with and released without charge, which is what i expect will happen in this case.

The difference between murder and manslaughter is not that you plan the murder in advance but that you go into a situation where you should be reasonably aware that your actions or use of an instrument could cause death.
Manslaughter means that you act in a reckless or dangerous way that causes death. I think the difference probably goes like this: going out somewhere carrying n iron bar, which you intend to use as a weapon and hitting someone who dies as a result, is murder. Getting involved in a fight and picking up an iron bar that happens to be lying around and hitting someone in the heat of the moment, who then dies is likely to be manslaughter

If he hadn't been in someone else's house, with the clear intention of robbing them, he'd be alive today!
If I find anyone burgling my house, they'll have to run faster than I can unlock and load my shotgun!
For all the 'bleeding heart liberals' amongst us, my gun is legally held, and only used for shooting clays, but no-one has the right to break into my home and terrorise my family, if they do, they will get what they deserve!
Okay, I've put my tin hat on, you can throw whatever you want!

According to neighbours on the BBC news last night, the area has been subject to burglaries. Apparently Mr Osborn-Brooks was marched down to the kitchen by one intruder whilst the other ransacked upstairs as Mrs O-B, who has dementia, lay in bed, terrified.

It's very unfortunate that someone died as a result of a householder defending himself but, if attacked by an intruder and knowing another was upstairs where his defenceless wife lay, what would any terrified person do under those circumstances?

I hope the same as you hildajenni

maisie Not everyone uses links and it is not necessary to be so unpleasant to other posters by asking if posters are "in the know members of GN"I am so pleased this man has been released I wonder how his poor wife is coping what a terrible thing to have happened when they are in their own home.
To have a duty of care to someone who is in my home illegally does not wash with me if they are up to no good and put my family at risk I would take any option open to me to remain safe and I think most people would do the same.

I am so pleased that the gentleman has been freed on bail. I hope that the law is upheld in this case, as it is stated here, www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders. It seems to me that the gentleman did nothing against this law. By the way, the link in the article doesn't work.

Showing off your technical abilities there Baggs

Easily found it on google too

My guess is that they chose this property because, being the cowards they are, they knew the residents were elderly and assumed they wouldn't fight back.

Ha! googled

I just goggled "78 year old" and the story came up umptyump times ?

To demean other posters who don’t share your technical abilities is uncalled for Maizie

Maizie I don't consider myself "pathetic" because I don't do links thank you very much.

Nonnie, he has now been bailed. The police clearly didn’t see him as a risk, or they’d have opposed his application.

I can understand that the police have to do their job because someone has died but, as someone up thread has said, he should be bailed. He is hardly likely to abscond and presumably will need help to cope with what has happened. Being locked up in a cell can only make matters worse for the poor man.

It feels like giving the green light to others who might try to burgle homes unless there is something the police have not told the media.

X posted with you there MaizieD

My inability to do links doesn’t mean I’m trying to exclude people. Thanks Merlot and Maw for your technical skills. I may not know how to post links but I do know how to use google which gives the up to date news on this.
The home owner has been bailed. Good. I accept the police had to follow procedures and imagine the would preferred to use their own judgement. I’m relieved to live in a country where that wouldn’t be allowed.