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78 year old arrested for murder

(112 Posts)
Iam64 Thu 05-Apr-18 09:05:08

I do understand we have processes to follow and that a man died as a result of being stabbed by the homeowner he was burgling. I hope I'm correct in believing the law will support the home owner because the stab wound was to the chest, rather than in the back as the burglar was running away as was the case with the farmer who shot an intruder.

It seems dreadful that this man is in custody. The news suggests he's a carer for his wife, I wonder where and how she is. He doesn't pose a threat to anyone and reacted to a man aged 38 who threatened him with a screw driver, at least thats what news reports say.

Is it possible he can be bailed and returned home despite the seriousness of the offence he's charged with. I can't imagine a jury convicting him of murder.

MawBroon Thu 05-Apr-18 09:11:45

I always thought an element of premeditation was necessary for a killing to be deemed “murder” anyway.
A 78 year old defending himself from two armed burglars in their 30’s seems to me another matter altogether.
Manslaughter (at worst) ? Possibly
But much more likely,(IMO) self defence.
Whose side is the law on?

MaizieD Thu 05-Apr-18 09:23:53

Is anybody willing to post a link to this story?

MillieBear Thu 05-Apr-18 09:25:16

In all likelihood he will be bailed for the time being, but as regards the elements of murder there has to be intention to kill or cause serious bodily harm so premeditation isn't needed. Also self defence requires any response to be immediate and proportionate. No doubt we'll be seeing quite a bit of this in the media.

MillieBear Thu 05-Apr-18 09:28:44

Whoops, should have added, however homeowners can now use disproportionate force against intruders in certain circumstances.

MaizieD Thu 05-Apr-18 09:30:07

Could someone post a link to this story please instead of assuming that everyone knows what you're talking about.

Or is it a private discussion for 'in the know' posters only?

Oldwoman70 Thu 05-Apr-18 09:32:35

Maizie Many GNs don't know how to post a link (I don't blush. You could always google it!

merlotgran Thu 05-Apr-18 09:35:51

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5580925/Pensioner-78-stabbed-burglar-bailed.html

TerriBull Thu 05-Apr-18 09:45:05

The police have to of course have to go through the correct procedures where such a death has occurred. I can only imagine the fear this man was feeling when he was woken to the sound of people moving about in his house, whilst his disabled wife lay next to him. I heard he was cornered in the kitchen, where of course most people keep their knives. The conundrum which is "reasonable force" comes very much into play in this scenario. The poor householder would have been under immense pressure, panic stricken I imagine, fearing not only for himself, but his wife upstairs. Burglars don't always just leave with their spoils sometimes they tie up their victims and torture them, there was the recent case of university academic beaten to a pulp by a gang, only saved because a daughter upstairs managed to covertly call the police. It's regrettable that a man died but he had a choice in what he was doing the householder didn't and my sympathy lies with him I hope he is acquitted, a custodial sentence would be a travesty imo.

MawBroon Thu 05-Apr-18 09:46:28

I would imagine it has been on radio/TV news this morning, but here you are MaizieD

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/04/suspected-burglar-dies-tussle-pensioner-78/

I have just realised you have beaten me to it Merlot

Welshwife Thu 05-Apr-18 09:50:13

It was on the news yesterday evening and again this morning. The initial report I heard gave the impression that the burglar tussled with the homeowner and was stabbed with the screwdriver he had taken into the house. A later report mentioned a kitchen knife. I was under the impression the burglar attacked the older man.
My own opinion is that if you break into someone else’s house you are fair game. Anyone going in to check on the residents would call out to them.

MaizieD Thu 05-Apr-18 09:58:45

Thanks very much to Merlot & MawBroon

Yes, I could have googled it; I did try the BBC news site and it wasn't there..

If some Gnetters can be pathetic and not 'do' links then I can be pathetic and not 'do' google ( I never get the right results when I try..) grin

My own opinion is that if you break into someone else’s house you are fair game.

In law you have a duty of care to anyone at all on your property whether they are there 'legally' or not. Which I suppose includes not shooting or stabbing them.

Iam64 Thu 05-Apr-18 10:01:30

My inability to do links doesn’t mean I’m trying to exclude people. Thanks Merlot and Maw for your technical skills. I may not know how to post links but I do know how to use google which gives the up to date news on this.
The home owner has been bailed. Good. I accept the police had to follow procedures and imagine the would preferred to use their own judgement. I’m relieved to live in a country where that wouldn’t be allowed.

Iam64 Thu 05-Apr-18 10:02:27

X posted with you there MaizieD

Nonnie Thu 05-Apr-18 10:03:46

I can understand that the police have to do their job because someone has died but, as someone up thread has said, he should be bailed. He is hardly likely to abscond and presumably will need help to cope with what has happened. Being locked up in a cell can only make matters worse for the poor man.

It feels like giving the green light to others who might try to burgle homes unless there is something the police have not told the media.

Iam64 Thu 05-Apr-18 10:06:05

Nonnie, he has now been bailed. The police clearly didn’t see him as a risk, or they’d have opposed his application.

Oldwoman70 Thu 05-Apr-18 10:10:39

Maizie I don't consider myself "pathetic" because I don't do links thank you very much.

Agus Thu 05-Apr-18 10:23:11

To demean other posters who don’t share your technical abilities is uncalled for Maizie

Baggs Thu 05-Apr-18 10:32:04

I just goggled "78 year old" and the story came up umptyump times 😐

Baggs Thu 05-Apr-18 10:32:20

Ha! googled

sunseeker Thu 05-Apr-18 10:37:29

My guess is that they chose this property because, being the cowards they are, they knew the residents were elderly and assumed they wouldn't fight back.

Agus Thu 05-Apr-18 10:42:41

Showing off your technical abilities there Baggs wink grin

Easily found it on google too

hildajenniJ Thu 05-Apr-18 10:44:41

I am so pleased that the gentleman has been freed on bail. I hope that the law is upheld in this case, as it is stated here, www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders. It seems to me that the gentleman did nothing against this law. By the way, the link in the article doesn't work.

glammanana Thu 05-Apr-18 10:54:15

maisie Not everyone uses links and it is not necessary to be so unpleasant to other posters by asking if posters are "in the know members of GN"I am so pleased this man has been released I wonder how his poor wife is coping what a terrible thing to have happened when they are in their own home.
To have a duty of care to someone who is in my home illegally does not wash with me if they are up to no good and put my family at risk I would take any option open to me to remain safe and I think most people would do the same.

Jalima1108 Thu 05-Apr-18 10:54:34

According to neighbours on the BBC news last night, the area has been subject to burglaries. Apparently Mr Osborn-Brooks was marched down to the kitchen by one intruder whilst the other ransacked upstairs as Mrs O-B, who has dementia, lay in bed, terrified.

It's very unfortunate that someone died as a result of a householder defending himself but, if attacked by an intruder and knowing another was upstairs where his defenceless wife lay, what would any terrified person do under those circumstances?

I hope the same as you hildajenni