Syria - what can be done

Same for Yemen- why do we not care about their children - and still supply arms to the Saudis- whilst they continue to use illegal cluster bombs.

If I were cynical, I would use just one word - oil and arms money and trade- same old, same tragic old.

Why do we not care about the Palestinian children?

We have just spoken to Robert Fisk (Foreign correspondent with The UK Independent) in #Douma, at 13.00 today, who says he is the 1st journalist to visit the clinic where the 'alleged' chemical attack took place. He went alone ie. not accompanied by military to see for himself. Everything is operating as per normal in a hospital. He confirms the following:
1. The footage is authentic - he could recognise the location
2. He spoke to doctors there who said that children were admitted coughing and spluttering
3. They were admitted AS A RESULT OF NEARBY SHELLING and DUST FUMES!
4. Someone created panic by shouting 'gas, gas, gas' and they began following procedure as they would in a gas attack by hosing them down
5. THERE WAS NO CHLORINE GAS ATTACK
REPEAT...
THERE WAS NO CHLORINE GAS ATTACK

trisher 14.41

I knew about the link you provided and it was actually that timeline I based my post on at 10.47.

When you said " Actually there have been several incidents using chemical weapons from both sides " I have to ask if you noted more than the one chemical attack which I had previously mentioned in my post of 10.47 that had been attributed to ISIS ?

If anybody takes the time to read your link they will note that Assad and Russia have lied through their back teeth over holding and using chemical weapons.

jura that is old news ( and fake) and just what Russia has their ‘plants’ to say.

Everybody is accompanied by military and the organisation who check chemical weapons was not allowed into Douma earlier today.

So why have the Russians/Syrians given access to a journalist and not the OPCW? Makes no sense at all jura.

trisher

" By the way both sides have used chemical weapons. A substantial amount of chemical weapons has been removed from Syria- and guess where the stuff is destroyed and decommissioned- in western countries. So we supply the chemicals let them make the stuff and then dispose of the results. Big business it is! "

It is the b----d that mixes the chemicals, stores the chemicals and uses the end product on his own people that makes it necessary to dispose of it. I am sure nobody wants to do his dirty work but who do you think the OPCW should have given the contracts to?

Extracts from trishers link and it is a worthwhile read to understand the cat and mouse games that Assad /Russia has played with the UN and the OPCW -

2013 . Syria submitted a declaration of its stockpiles of chemical weapons to the OPCW.

2013 . The OPCW confirmed that Syria destroyed, or rendered inoperable, all of its declared facilities for mixing and producing chemical weapons. The OPCW was able to inspect 21 of the 23 sites where these facilities were housed. The remaining two sites could not be visited due to security concerns, but inspectors said that the equipment was moved out of these sites and destroyed.

2013 The OPCW announced that Syria's chemical weapons will be destroyed on a U.S. ship using hydrolysis. Hydrolysis is a process that breaks down chemical agents using hot water and other compounds to neutralize the agents.

2013 Syria missed the deadline for sending all of its chemical weapons out of the country. This deadline was set by a UN Security Council Resolution approved in September.

2014 The OPCW announced that two companies, one in Finland (Ekokem OY AB) and one in Texas (Veolia), were awarded contracts to dispose of the effluent created during the destruction of Syria's chemical weapons.

2014 Reports emerged of an attack using chlorine-gas bombs in Kafr Zita, a village controlled by opposition forces in northwestern Syria.

2014. The OPCW announced that it would send a team to investigate the April 11 attacks that the Assad regime used chlorine gas.

2014 Syria missed the revised deadline to remove all of its chemical weapons stockpile from the country by the end of April. Approximately 8 percent of the stockpile, largely sarin precursor chemicals, remains in Damascus.

They are mere snippets but it goes on and on and Syria has got away with it time and again because Russia has backed Assad militarily and politically in Syria and at the UN.

jura

The OPCW should have said 'We're with him' and they would have gotten in Douma to investigate.

I wonder why they have delayed them?

According to most respected journalists, Robert Fisk peddles propaganda
As other western journalists were risking their lives to report Assad’s massacres of civilians, including The Sunday Times’ Marie Colvin – who the Assad regime killed for reporting the truth, Fisk has trumpeted the Assad regime and Russian propaganda

jura

You obviously follow Fisk but he is Marmite.

POGS I deliberately didn't cut and paste any parts of the report because it is so possible to misrepresent what has been going on , just as you have done.
As far as access goes you should remember that this is a war zone and that the Russians are probably the only people who are able to offer access to some areas, and that they would necessarily need to ensure that the areas to be visited were secure, so might delay.
Although Syria missed deadlines (and probably for the same reason) they did cooperate and the UN agreed that the majority of chemical weapons had been removed. Some of course, perhaps if stored in rebel held areas, remained.
The fact is that far from being a one-off incident that needed immediate reprisal chemical warfare has been going on for a long tme in Syria and the Middle East. So why send missiles now?

trisher

I did not misrepresent anything. In fact I said your link was a ' worthwhile read'.

You say -
" As far as access goes you should remember that this is a war zone and that the Russians are probably the only people who are able to offer access to some areas, and that they would necessarily need to ensure that the areas to be visited were secure, so might delay."

That is a possibility but I think there are answers to that in your link if I remember .

That point also raises a question why a journalist is allowed in to Douma to go about his business freely but the delegation from the OPCW are refused.

trisher

" The fact is that far from being a one-off incident that needed immediate reprisal chemical warfare has been going on for a long tme in Syria and the Middle East. So why send missiles now?"

Yes it has obviously been going on for a while because Russia has vetoed the UN at every turn. Russia is Assad's mouthpiece in the UN and Assad is protected by Russia both militarily and politically.

The only time Russia backed the UN was in 2013 when it agreed Syria should get rid of their stock piles of chemical weapons. He obviously lied and had no intention of complying with any agreement with the UN.

POGS that's obvious a journalist travels at his own risk and goes where he wishes, if something happens to him it is regretful but personal. A UN delegation needs clearance at all levels and a safe escort, if anything happens to anyone in that delegation it could cause an international incident.
Russia may be "Assad's mouthpiece" he is the official government of Syria. They have proposed several alternative motions to the UN, but none has been taken up. Do you never wonder why?

trisher

"They have proposed several alternative motions to the UN, but none has been taken up. Do you never wonder why?"

What are they and I may be able to respond.

Much as I hate cut and paste if people ask
April 10, 2018: The UN Security Council votes on three resolutions to address chemical weapons use in Syria. Russia vetoed a U.S.-sponsored resolution which would have created a UN Independent Mechanism of Investigation with a one-year mandate to investigate the responsible actors for chemical weapons use in Syria. A Russian resolution which would have created a similar body but would have allowed the UN Security Council, not the investigative body, to ultimately determine accountability fails to receive enough votes to pass. A second Russian resolution, which urged the OPCW Fact Finding Mission to investigate the incident and offered Russian military protection for investigators, also fails to receive enough votes to pass. The OPCW had already announced earlier that day that it was planning to deploy a Fact-Finding Mission to Douma
and
. The UN Security Council meets to discuss the situation in Syria. The United Kingdom states that the legal basis for its joint strike is humanitarian intervention. Russia and Bolivia condemn the strike, which they assert is a violation of the UN Charter. Russia also introduces a draft resolution which condemns "aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic by the US and its allies," but it only receives three votes and fails to pass. France, the United Kingdom and the United States announce their intention to introduce a draft resolution on political and humanitarian tracks to resolve the conflict.

It's playing politics of course but both sides are involved

trisher

"Russia also introduces a draft resolution which condemns "aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic by the US and its allies," but it only receives three votes and fails to pass.

True but as said the Russian resolution was defeated in the UN , there was no ' veto ' it was debated and voted on.

The outcome of the Russian resolution was the 3 countries UK/USA/FRANCE had the backing of NATO/UN/EU and many more.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg

" I support the actions taken by the United States, the United Kingdom and France against the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons facilities and capabilities. This will reduce the regime’s ability to further attack the people of Syria with chemical weapons.

NATO has consistently condemned Syria's continued use of chemical weapons as a clear breach of international norms and agreements. The use of chemical weapons is unacceptable, and those responsible must be held accountable.

NATO considers the use of chemical weapons as a threat to international peace and security, and believes that it is essential to protect the Chemical Weapons Convention. This calls for a collective and effective response by the international community."
--

And who is the leading player in NATO, POGS?

Apparently it was ‘the paperwork’ and security matters that kept the chemicals team out of Douma for so long........
Yes, of course it was!

Jura, who doesn't care about children in the Yemen or Palestine? The media focus currently is on the children hurt in the chemical attacks in Syria. There are frequent tv/msm references to the children, and adults, affected in the Yemen, in Palestine and also the Rohinga Muslim refugee community. There are frequent appeals from various charities to fund raise to help those children (and their families)
I'm not suggesting these various groups receive equal publicity but I am asking how you reach the conclusion that "we" don't care about those children.

As for Fisk, I've been googling and reading. Someone said upthread he's Marmite and that's one way of describing him.

But not a journalist lemon!!!!!!

Marmite, something brown and unpleasant?

True niggly perhaps Russians like Marmite?
Or considered him a useful dupe?

The idea that the Douma event isn't questionable on so many grounds is ridiculous. It can no more definitely be said that there was a chemical attack and that Assad was responsible than it can be said that there wasn't. It is a matter of keeping an open mind and looking at all the evidence. Even then you have to take into account that there is major propaganda involved on all sides. Suppose there isn't any evidence, how would Mrs May &Cos missile attack look then?