Should the BBC be doing this?

FRankly - how can you compare the attitude of someone living in the middle East for the majority of their recent adult life- and someone who studied and worked all their adult life in the UK and recently left, to somewhere not far with regular visits. It is just plain silly.

And yes, what has it got to do with anything, I totally agree- but YOU made the point about me living abroad- so YOU made it part of this discussion, did you not?

I think that many people are glad of the enrichment of our culture which has resulted from immigration. And live peaceably with their neighbours of any colour or faith
I certainly rejoice in that MaizieD

^ I have read the full text I think it is both horrible and chilling. Chilling because there are sentiments in it which have been expressed in modern ti,mes. The racism and xenophobia he details are still here, 50 years later.^ - and is this not what Powell foresaw? Was he right?

Should the speech have been broadcast again as a warning of what could happen if we are not vigilant and aware?

^ I have read the full text I think it is both horrible and chilling. Chilling because there are sentiments in it which have been expressed in modern ti,mes. The racism and xenophobia he details are still here, 50 years later.^
But, we hope, not so extensive as they once were and we are much more aware now.

Such programmes as Love Thy Neighbour and Till Death us Do Part are still available online.

Should they be banned? I don't know.
They were also 'of their time'.

How many people would have realised that this speech had been broadcast in full had there not been publicity about it online?

It can be easy to be judgemental from the outside.
I agree MawBroon - when we visit family overseas they have a view of the UK which is quite different to that of those of the family who live here.
If they visit they are quite surprised that we are fairly civilised, that people are thronging the shops, the restaurants, places of entertainment. Yes, there are problems, but so there are in many other countries too.

As for the speech - it is history and should be judged as of its time.

To reurn to Powell's speech. I have read the full text I think it is both horrible and chilling. Chilling because there are sentiments in it which have been expressed in modern ti,mes. The racism and xenophobia he details are still here, 50 years later.

What I found especially nasty was the fact that most of the 'immigrants' he was referring to would have been from countries which had, until very recently, been part of the British Empire . They had been taught to think of themselves as 'British' and many had a reverence for 'the Mother Country'. For many, their treatment in Britain must have been a shock and to have heard/read the reported extracts from Powell's speech must have been extremely unpleasant.

I really don't see why this has to be revived at this moment (or at all). The extreme problems he foresaw didn't happen. The underlying racism might still be there, with a different target group, but I think that many people are glad of the enrichment of our culture which has resulted from immigration. And live peaceably with their neighbours of any colour or faith.

Irrelevant but of course he had a “foot “ in the U.K.- a flat in London, the rest of his family here, his daughter cane to do her Sixth Form here, his research brought him here every summer for at least a month and many visits to Singapore from friends and family.
His pension is also irrelevant but the mindset of the expat is easy to spot.
He is now in his late sixties so I would say at least half his adult life was U.K. based although I don’t see what that has to do with anything
Frankly

oh dear Mawbroon- I agree that 30 years abroad, probably a large part of your bil's adult life, is a very long time.

I have only been away for 9 years- and I have VERY close contact with the UK, still ahve property there, children, grandchildren, nephews, nieces, and many friends - and watch UK news, read UK Press and visit often. A totally different situation. I still very much have a foot and a big part of my heart in the UK. I imagine your bil did not- and did not rely totally on a UK pension either.

Oh dear. Chip on the shoulder?
I would say what I think was the case to whomever, such as for instance, my BIL who returned to the U.K. a year ago after 30 years as an expat professor in the Far East. Despite annual visits for a month or so each summer, his view of the U.K. is sadly out of date. It can be easy to be judgemental from the outside. Where a person was born is irrelevant, but there is no substitute for current experience.

how is it relevant MB - call it what you wish. Your comment is made because I am foreign born, and live abroad now- but all my comments are based on 40 years in UK and current experience and knowledge.

Maw is not being racist because race is not involved. The suggestion of racism used here is based on a contorted view of what racist means. This, the contorted view, makes the terms 'racist' and 'racism' lose their meaning, the meaning that is linked to—guess what!—race. You are both Caucasians.

I don't think she's being xenophobic either, which would be a better accusation than racist but also wrong.

I am not being racist and would make the same comment to anybody if it were relevant.

MB, that is so cheap and nasty. I may not live in the UK now, but I did for 40 years and until recently- and have DDs, family and friends- andstillspend much time there.

Either interpretation could be correct, or not, or anything in between. I do NOT know, and it seems, neither do you.

Would you make similar comments to any member here who is UK born but has lived abroad for a very long time. I was just a kid when I came to UK, lived there all my adult life, raising children, studying, working full time- until very recently. Does not make me an expert at all in all UK things- but to state that I haven't got a clue- is pushing it a bit.

And quite 'racist' if you think about it.

I assume you can provide similar proof that a senior MP Enoch Powell was “tempted” by a shit little soi- disant party like UKIP.
Instead of conjecture and over- interpretation of a standard formula.
But of course as you are an expert on everything to do with the U.K. I may have to defer to your inside knowledge.

I am fully aware of this- but it depends on context- and cannot be automatically taken as your interpretation. So do provide links that gives proof.

It’s a normal polite formula and turn of phrase in English

Do you have evidence that that is the case... in this particular case - or just your own interpretation and guess?

Pressed post too soon
I meant to add the usual thing your bank manager used to say when you applied for an overdraft

No- they didn't- but Powell said 'after very careful consideration' so he was tempted

No, a polite standard turn of phrase.

No- they didn't- but Powell said 'after very careful consideration' so he was tempted.

However, I'll go back to my point- that with the recent rise of attacks on immigrants, be they verbal or worse- in the UK (and the world over) - I do think stirring that hornets' nest t the moment, and possibly allowing the far right to misuse it- is not a good idea at all.

Racists cannot 'justify' their racist ideas. Racism is not justifiable. Could it be that any who try to use what Powell said as 'justification' for their wrong-headed ideas that they are the ones who have misinterpreted what he said?

jura, did those who you say tried to get Powell's support get it? Or not?

The speech is being broadcast because it is fifty years since Enoch Powell delivered it.
The BBC have said "This is a rigorous journalistic analysis of a(n) historical political speech."
Read it.

Oh yes- but the far right revered Powell, and misuse him all the time to justify themselves- and are hardly going to read what they do not want to read...

My concern- But agreed that making the whole content known and debated- may be a good idea, in some ways.

Farage most likely struggled with the big words or didn't trouble to read more than the (inaccurate) sound bites.