Unions and strikes -a real threat or just a succesful media promotion.

They have been weakened by successive governments

I think that you have to add the right-wing media to that. They constantly promoted the image of unions as being solely for the purpose of calling their members out on strike (and have relentlessly pushed the myth of the 70s).

Whenever I was working I was always in a union but many colleagues would refuse to join on the grounds that they 'didn't believe in going on strike'. Hard to convince them that striking was a very small part of union activity but the very fact of a large membership with the potential to strike was a potent tool in negotiations.

Someone mentioned workers on the board earlier. The idea has always appealed to me.

I agree about what happened with men and control Eleothan it is interesting to wonder why this happened. I know for example that there were women in the NE very active in the Union movement during WW1 and after that. One of them- Lisbeth Simm-,a name now lost to history, was sent to Australia twice to look at working conditions there. It is perhaps linked in to what happens after wars when women tend to be pushed back into 'suitable' roles. I know there are women working hard in unions now so progress is being made.

I think it can be acknowledged that unions, in earlier times, were run almost exclusively by men and were not perfect. The unions did not support the Ford women workers who sought equal pay and the unions have not always behaved as well as might be expected. However, their behaviour and attitudes reflected the behaviour and attitudes that existed then.

I think unions are essential and are, on the whole, a force for good. They have been weakened by successive governments and perhaps it is no coincidence that pay and working conditions have deteriorated significantly over the last few years.

But this is a new thread so you need to support your allegations if they are to have any relevance Annie. I don't expect you to do anything by the way, I expect that as usual you will make unfounded allegations and pretend that you have some sort of secret knowledge none of the rest of us are privy to. In fact it probably isn't worth you even replying to me as you wil post more of the same. Still I supppose it keeps you happy.

Once again I have posted them several times and you joined the discussion.

I haven't "dismissed them" Annie. I have said and I maintain that they are valuable institutions representing the voices of working people. That they have worked to acheive proper wages, good working conditions and hours and to ensure and protect human rights. I don't believe they have ever controlled governments, I do think some governments have delberately targe.ted them and used the police and media to blacken their reputation.
Once again please post your evidence for union control of a government if you have any

When I posted on them Trisher you defended the Unions , you certaintly didn't dismiss them as you have now

I can't see the difference between governments controlled by unions and governments controlled by non-domiciled billionaire newspaper owners. Neither are particularly desirable.

But then, because of the nature of our first past the post voting system, most governments rarely represent the full range of the population.

Ah I see it's on the same level as your Corbyn posts- lots of imagination and bile, very little facts. So in fact no government has ever been "controlled by the unions'. It remains one of those urban myths, promoted by a right wing press.

And no you didn't miss it Trisher, you never failed to defend the Unions when ever it came up for discussion

Good heavens no, I dare not Trisher, the time I took flack for repeating truths about Corbyn

Oh I must have missed that. Perhaps you could tell people who have just joined GN and those like me who missed your post the exact details.

I have many times

Have there? Would you like to give evidence of that?

Because there has been governments controlled by unions,

POGs it's not a question about any particular period or time, it's a question about how we came to this notion, so relevant once again, that unions in some way seek to control the government. The US is mentioned because over all they have had many more strikes than this country, yet I have never seen any assertions that the unions there are trying to rule the country. So the question is why is it so widely believed in this country? and as far as I can see it is the media who started, nurtured and promoted this view.

One of the recent strikes hear that I can bring to mind is the university lecturers and I had a lot of sympathy for them, when you think of the difference between their wages and those of the vice-chancellors.

Interesting that you should say that, Ilovecheese, because you seem to be, maybe unconsciously, perpetrating the perception that strikes are always about pay. The university staff (it wasn't just lecturers) were actually striking about a threat to their pensions, not their current levels of pay.

I encountered the same misconception during the miners' strike. My mother thought they were striking over pay when in fact they were trying to prevent mine closures and protect their jobs. I think all the publicity at the time had completely washed over her...

While the general public associate strikes only with pay, and unions only with strikes, we will never achieve an objective and informed view of unions.

As others on this thread have pointed out, they do a huge amount of generally unpublicised work in protecting their members and their members interests.

trisher

I did look at your link but I don't understand what American Union activity has to do with how the Unions behave in the UK.

For a start America would presumably show a different level of Union Activity due to the size of the country and population in comparison to the UK.

Is your question to do with worldwide Union activity / strikes or are you asking for answers solely based on the UK Union activity/strikes. If the latter do you have a particular period of time in mind or from around the 1970's and the ' Winter of Discontent' ?

One of the recent strikes hear that I can bring to mind is the university lecturers and I had a lot of sympathy for them, when you think of the difference between their wages and those of the vice-chancellors. The lecturers still think of universities as places of learning whereas the vice-chancellors seem to regard them as just like any other business.

Unions do so many good things for their members, legal advice, education, deals on life insurance, things that can be done so much better collectively than by individuals.

They have lost so many of their rights now, it is time the balance was redressed.

Look at the link POGS that's why it's there. US has many more strikes than here.

trisher

" But how real is this threat that the unions will somehow disrupt life and seek to dominate government? Well firstly there haven't been that many strikes in the UK"

What do you mean? Over what period of time for example.

Trisher I think unions working together with a Labour Government should be a positive thing.
Fair wages (always a difficult one but setting a limit of say nobody to be paid more than 20 times the wage of the lowest paid), health and safety, gender pay issues, maternity and paternity leave, etc.
Co-operation rather than confrontation hopefully.
The trouble is, change in the economy is so fast moving now, that employees (with a secure, well paid job) understandably want to protect the status quo.

Workers reps on company boards has been implemented in Germany since at least the 1970s. Not confrontation, but an acceptance that directors and employees working together is best for the company.
Unions have a role in Health and Safety in particular.
It seems to be negotiating money that’s the main problem area. But (generalisation here) nobody has pay rises anymore unless they’re a director or a top advisor or a university vice chancellor!
The unions haven’t been very effective at making sure workers are fairly paid. The pay differential between the highest paid and the lowest paid in a company or organisation is becoming greater all the time.

I agree mostlyharmless so why does this spectre of Unions controlling our government still haunt us?

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