Regret it Brexit?

allyg: 8th May:
^Mostly Harmless let's have some then. What is it that made you vote to remain? I really am interested, give us some facts, convince us that your right and we are wrong.
Lets go!^

Well that’s two examples for you of something you claimed above that you hadn’t said.

When the bill allowing the referendum to go ahead was passed by Parliament it went through as an ADVISORY referendum and Cameron changed it during the run up to it -never passed by Parliament - that is one of the reasons that people say it is not legal - besides the fact that the U.K. is not ruled by a referenda.

Not sure what your figures about the UK economy are trying to prove allyg?

So just before the Conservative Government came to power in 2010 Government Debt was 64.1% of GDP. During the next seven/eight years of Tory Government, debt increased to 87.7% of GDP. That is a huge increase.

The Tories are extremely bad at managing debt is that what you are trying to say?

For the first time, after seven years of Austerity, with welfare payments cut, police budgets cut, education budgets cut, prisons budgets cut, NHS in crisis, defence budgets cut, student fees raised, the Tories are finally just beginning to make ends meet but still have the huge debt they created through years of mismanagement.

Welshwife You are correct, a referendum is advisory and not legally binding, however in a democratic society when you specifically ask the voting population a question only those who didn't vote for the outcome result would not expect the majority vote to be acted upon.

There are a lot of questions about the referendum as well you know and it did not follow the normal rules - that is what half the problem is - people feel duped - not enough people voting and also no majority % set before hand - Cameron being so sure he would win.

Mostlyharmless as I said I don't recall having asked a remainer why they voted to remain in the EU.

Did you say why you voted to remain? I don't recall!

Mostly once again your choose what to show and what not to show. The bottom of that paste says:

General government deficit (or net borrowing) was £39.4 billion in 2017, a decrease of £19.0 billion compared with 2016; this is equivalent to 1.9% of GDP, 1.1 percentage points below the reference value of 3.0% set out in the Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure.
•This is the first time the government deficit has been below the 3.0% Maastricht reference value since 2007, when it was 2.6% of GDP.
www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/decemb

Welshwife "There are a lot of questions about the referendum as well you know and it did not follow the normal rules - that is what half the problem is - people feel duped - not enough people voting and also no majority % set before hand - Cameron being so sure he would win."

Welshwife I posted this when you posted about the referendum previously. I can't say more so I am reposting it.
Just one other thing you say "Cameron being so sure he would win". Does this mean that the rules for voting would have been changed? Surely this would be fixing the vote.

Allygran1 Mon 14-May-18 15:11:57
With regard to Brexit, two things happened, as we all know: a referendum advising Government of the popular support by majority for a course of action in this case leave the EU. Followed later by a general election. These two actions together had the result of giving Parliament a popularist clear mandate for delivering brexit.

Conservatives, Labour, and UKIP stood for election on a promise to respect the Brexit referendum result. The majority of MP.s were elected or re-elected on a brexit and some on a hard brexit party platform.

All MP's voted in at the General Election ran on their party manifestos. The people who voted Conservative, Labour and UKIP candidates in, did so on a deliver Brexit mandates, as promised in their party's manifestos.

With a total joint share of the vote for parties who stood for election at the general election being 85% for the three party's who promised in their manifestos to respect the brexit referendum majority vote, ( Acknowledgment: Annette Bongardt and Francisco Torres Senior visiting Fellows in the Europea Political Economy at LSE European Institute), the expectation should be that the Parliamentary system should vote through the Brexit Bill as it is commonly known by that sort of majority.

The Conservatives stood on a 'better no deal than a bad deal" - hard brexit and increased their share of the vote by 5.5%. whilst not increasing the number of Conservative MP's the increase in the share of the vote showed they had won the popular vote on the hard Brexit stance.

It's important to note that Labour, having stood at the General Election on a "respect the Brexit majority vote", after the GE the party changed their stance. A deception of a majority of Labour voters on a grand scale. It might be that this U turn will affect the Parliamentary vote on the Brexit Bill. This could have long term negative repercussions on a Corbyn led Labour Party at the next GE.

Our Parliamentary democracy depends on the integity of the political party's standing by the mandates on which they stood for election.

Parliament through the MP's elected on a respect brexit mandate have a duty to represent the views of the people who voted for them based on their mandate.

I trust in our democratic system and have confidence that the majority and populist voters of both the referendum and the GE will find their trust in the advisory and democratic system of the UK has not been misplaced.

The words referendum and plebiscite refer to electoral institutions in which the mass of the population votes on an issue.
However, they have very different political connotations. Plebiscite is a negative term referring to an unfair and unfree vote in an undemocratic political system.
ukandeu.ac.uk/referendum-or-plebiscite-whats-the-difference/

allyg. Look back at what you posted on 8th May. It’s quite clear there that you did ask. As I quoted above. You can easily check if you “don’t recall” or don’t believe me.

So next you have selected a small part of your post about the U.K. economy. You need to read my post properly because I looked at ALL the figures you provided. My last paragraph above addressed both sets of figures and how they showed that the Tories have mismanaged the economy, and seriously damaged the country, to create huge debt and are only just starting to reduce the annual deficit.

You seem to imply this Government’s economic mismanagement supports your case for Brexit. Really?

Welshwife
Every elgible voter had the opportunity to vote, if they didn't vote that should invalidate the result. Everyone should have known there was a potential for a referendum as many had been lobbying for one for years. Every elgible voter had the opportunity to base their vote on observations of EU policy and practice since UK joined the common market (for those who were interested). Every UK voter came to their own conclusions based on their life experiences and their hopes and expectations for the future for themselves and future generations.
I don't understand your assertion that the referendum didn't follow 'normal' rules. I am sure the Electoral commission would have intervened by now.
Don't forget all parties agreed to Article 50 being triggered.

Should not

mostlyharmless does 'he said' 'she said' really matter?

Why did you vote remain ?

Every UK voter came to their own conclusions based on their life experiences and their hopes and expectations for the future for themselves and future generations

What, like my friend who voted Leave for a laugh? (And bitterly regrets doing so)

I do wish you Leavers would stop claiming that every single Leave voter did so after thoroughly assessing the pros and cons and were entirely uninfluenced by the media. Some of you might have done, but not all of you.

Joelsnan perhaps you haven’t been reading this thread? Read my posts on this thread and you will see clearly why I voted the way I did.

mostlyharmless does 'he said' 'she said' really matter?

Well, it does rather cast doubts on the integrity of a poster if they completely deny that they said something when it can be easily verified that they did say it.

joelsnan Mostlyharmless what does 'he said' 'she said' really matter?
Allyg started the “he said she said” earlier. I’ve just answered her to clarify the situation.

Quite maisie.

MaizieD For every leave voter doing it 'for a larf' there will be a remainder doing the same. Be assured there will be numpties on both sides, some voting remain to protect their cheap Costa holidays and booze runs.

You appear to misinterpret my previous post, did I state that's all Leavers assessed the pro's and con's.? I think I said all eligible voters had the opportunity...does this exclusively refer to Leavers?

Booze runs have stopped since one T Blair made alcohol similar pricing to France. We will be going back to the white van smugglers come Brexit.

Mostlyharmless "What, like my friend who voted Leave for a laugh? (And bitterly regrets doing so)"

Which bit does your friend regret: voting for a laugh or voting leave? No need to answer I can imagine. Astonishing!!

Joelsnan being Saturday night were in the misinterpretation zone I afraid. I do agree with you Joelsnan there will be a few who use their vote irresponsibly both remain and leave. It's astonishing!

Maizie Lets do this again.

"Allygran1 Sat 19-May-18 17:56:00
Mostlyharmless as I said I don't recall having asked a remainer why they voted to remain in the EU."

You have shown me that I did ask you, albeit on Gransnet. Fine! Comments taken out of context and literally are often twisted. Note: I said I did not recall and I didn't.
Concentrating on the issue rather than finding fault with the poster would be more productive. Play the ball not the person!

allyg:
Mostlyharmless "What, like my friend who voted Leave for a laugh? (And bitterly regrets doing so)"

Are you reading the same thread as me? Once again you’ve got very confused. allyg.

I didn’t say that at all.

It’s obviously not worth trying to have a logical debate with you.

Maizie d

Talking of verification I would like to understand what substantiation to attribute to your previous links to be able to follow your posts .

So I ask again :-

Who or 'what' is Steve Analyst / Emporers New Clothes?

Who or 'what' is Dropbox / Mark Byrne?

Which Party does ' Party Members Project Media Resources' belong to/relate to?

Apology Mostly the voting for a laugh comment was not made by you it was MaizieD.
As I said before you are both so similar on post.
MaizieD posted:MaizieD Sat 19-May-18 18:41:03
Every UK voter came to their own conclusions based on their life experiences and their hopes and expectations for the future for themselves and future generations

What, like my friend who voted Leave for a laugh? (And bitterly regrets doing so)
My error in attributing it to Mostlyharmless.

So much confusion on this Brexit thread.