Regret it Brexit?

MaizieD please don't spoil the thread with more personal digs. I imagine we are all 'adults' on this site.

I wonder how you know about the 'concern' of long term posters, ally, when you are yourself, as you so rightly say, a newcomer.

This twitter thread in support, varian

twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/997457702342230016

It's quite hard going because it does require you to understand some maths

(I've no idea who this guy is, POGS isn't going to like it. But I'm more interested in critiques of his references/sources/maths than quibbles about who he might be. Once again, his 'bias' is crystal clear)

One conclusion is that the import of tariff free (i.e cheap) food would put our farmers out of business in the same way that imports of tariff free cheap manufactured goods would destroy our manufacturing businesses (as foretold by Patrick Minford in his 'Economists for Brexit' paper). This would raise concerns about food safety and food security. At present food safety is more or less protected by EU regulation; protection which we we lose on leaving the EU. Food security hardly bears thinking about.

Do we need to be reminded that Rees-Mogg published, via the Sun, a list of items which he claimed would be cheaper after Brexit but the Sun had to publish a retraction when it was pointed out by experts that his calculations were completely wrong?

varian Everything is supposition at this stage, this could be the case or it could be scaremongers keeping the stress levels high, or it could be that we become more resourceful and will not tolerate the vast food waste mountains, or we go back to market gardens and markets like a lot if Europeans do rather than buying imported pre packs from supermarkets.
To me the 'price rocket' article is a 'keep 'em stressed' tactic.
And, hasn't it always been the case that the rich get to buy the best quality food and the poor get the poor quality?

Re: POGS Sun 20-May-18 17:11:59 Posting

POGS, thank you for bringing this issue to the fore.

You articulated so eloquently a matter that has been of concern, to some long term posters on the News and Political forum, as well as myself: as a relatively new user of GN.

The brexiteers, such as JRM , claim that brexit will result in food prices falling . www.express.co.uk/news/politics/831450/Jacob-Rees-Mogg-Brexit-food-wine-clothes-shoes-lower-20-per-cent

Yet international commentators predict that food prices will rise dramatically if the UK leaves the EU.

"Food prices in Britain are set to rocket if the U.K. is unable to secure a free trade deal with the European Union (EU), a report by the House of Lords warned Thursday. A bleak assessment by the upper house of Britain's parliament said that failure to secure a tariff-free deal would split Britain into two post-Brexit, with the wealthier able to buy more expensive food and poorer households left to buy below-par imports.

Half of Britain's food is imported, with 30 percent from EU countries and 20 percent from the rest of the world. Cheddar cheese is predicted to be one of the biggest causalities if Britain agrees no deal and trades under World Trade Organization (WTO) rules. Wholesale prices could rise by more than a third, with retail prices increasing by 20 percent."

www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/brexit-set-to-hike-food-prices-and-split-shoppers-into-two-groups-warns-house-of-lords-report.html

Rising food prices will hit the poorest hardest, and that of course will include many poor folk who were deceived into voting leave. Both commentators are making predictions but I know which I believe

I don't think you are confused Joelsnan, sorry if I gave you impression that I did, I was just responding to mostlyharmless' post.

Do you have any critique of his content, POGS?

Whatever suspicions one may have of a source it's the content that is open to challenge.

After all, his motive for posting seems transparent enough.

Maizie d

As you ask, yes!

Reading something in a link without knowing who/where/why and by whom is a reasonable question to ask of somebody who posts a link , after all the poster generating the link is using them/it to provide evidence to make their own case so it is not unreasonable to know themselves and provide subsequent information if asked surely. .

There are /were many links provided on GN that have been overtly political and therefore required remembering the reason for why it was posted. They may or may not have had a point but it clouded worthwhile debate.

There are / were links to what I called ' The world and his dog ' using twitter so why should they be trusted in the climate of knowing social media is awash with propaganda sites from goodness knows where and by lord knows who behind them. Everybody is on their guard for being duped or possibly being a 'useful tool ' by spreading such propaganda, think BOTS.

As you said in reality you know nothing of who or what your link was connected to and that may or may not concern some but I like to be able to make my opinions on at least a little bit of understanding who or what is behind what I am reading , more so clicking onto.

Thank you for replying.

leads me to ask how reliable any information from that source may be legitimate

I think you have to read the thread that I posted, POGS and decide for yourself how legitimate his information might be. As it it is well referenced I think it is legitimate. You can't argue that it isn't unless you actually read it.

Have you read it?

Re Norther Ireland and based on the fact that we still appear to be Brexitting., Do we really know what the residents there want maybe they want an open border, or a closed one or even reuniting with the south.

Has anyone asked the Irish population if they intend tearing up the Good Friday agreement and descending into civil war again come March next year?

Whatever, I think the UK should turn the tables and require EU and Eire to come up with a solution acceptable to UK instead of poopooing everything that UK suggests. It is more an EU problem than a UK one

That is a real can of worms - and then Gibraltar needs to added to the mix and finally the Falklands which are very worried about their fishing trade. Almost half their trade is fish and 90 odd percent of that goes to Europe - tariffs could ruin that.

Getting back to the subject what do people think about the Northern Ireland Border issue?
As this could be the deciding factor in any Brexit deal negotiated.

mostlyharmless and smileless2012
Please advise me of my confusion, I have retraced my posts and am maybe too confused to identify them.

This so reminds me of silly school ground antics

Well if there is "so much confusion among the Brexit supporters" thank goodness there wasn't on the day of the referendum when they voted leave.

I agree you're very confused yet again allyg. And now joelsgran is confused too!
So much confusion among the Brexit supporters!

I thought Dropbox was a method of moving files from one computer to another. My DGS used it a lot when at Uni to transfer work from the mainframe to his laptop.

POGS your comments about verifiable sources of information is something I very much agree with.

Varian

Who or what is behind Dropbox?
Who is Mark Byrne?
Which party is behind ' Party Members Project Media Resources '?

varian Wed 16-May-18 16:21:17

Maizie d

I am confusing you with another poster, I apologise to you.

Indeed the link to 'dropbox', ' Party Members Project Media Resources ' Mark Byrne was indeed posted by Varian.

As for your links to the Emporers New Clothes and your comment :-

"Steve Analyst says he's a Political analyst. As he doesn't give his real name on his twitter bio I can't search any further. However, he tweets knowledgeable threads (I don't think you can find fault with the facts he gives in the thread I posted."

I am of the opinion that given you know nothing about him and cannot research him leads me to ask how reliable any information from that source may be legitimate given the knowledge we now have of social media manipulation from what can only be described as dubious sources.

As for his tweeting knowledgeable threads I think that is a case of ' in the eye of the beholder' and I will keep wondering who/what is behind some links .

@POGS

You ask:
^
Who or 'what' is Steve Analyst / Emporers New Clothes?^

Who or 'what' is Dropbox / Mark Byrne?
Which Party does ' Party Members Project Media Resources' belong to/relate to?

Steve Analyst says he's a Political analyst. As he doesn't give his real name on his twitter bio I can't search any further. However, he tweets knowledgeable threads (I don't think you can find fault with the facts he gives in the thread I posted.

The other two I have no idea about. I don't think I posted links to them, though if I did and you can give me details of the time /date of my post I'll have a look. It's possible that they might have come from a page of search results and I picked one as being representative of the point I was making. (But I still don't think it was me who posted them)

Yes Allygran1, I do understand & agree to a point & they are very informative.

Mostly - It's very odd that I only confuse your two names is only on posts from you and Maizie's. I don't understand why!

Bridgiet, when faced with claims that are unsubstantiated it is nice to get the source of the information or statement to improve the quality of what is being discussed. Otherwise we get into unsubstantiated and misleading views which can become unhelpful and as we have seen "you said I said" situations.

If someone is offering a view or opinion, that is one thing ,but when making a definite claim or statement, say about the strength of the British Economy, then backing up that statement helps us all, to first debate about it or counter that with other figures in order to shine a light on the facts. So backing up claims does not diminish views and opinions in my view.

I very much enjoyed this thread when there was a fair exchange of opinions & comments,now sadly it seems to me that an opinion alone is not acceptable.Now it seems we must produce lengthy lifted articles, whilst it is obvious we need substance to a thread, I think it works much better without quite so many of them.