Unintended consequences of brexit

One thing it does suggest is that immigration was a very key issue. A point I have seen contested by Leavers.

Ok, found it.
I don't think it's saying quite what nellie thinks it does but as I'm on my phone I won't do a one fat finger response at the moment
www.referendumanalysis.eu/eu-referendum-analysis-2016/section-1-context/the-great-miscalculation-david-camerons-renegotiation-and-the-eu-referendum-campaign/

I put part of my post in bold, Jura,for avoidance of doubt. I believe the convention is that shouting is expressed in capitals.
I have noted over the past couple of years, though, that Leavers are very sensitive souls.

A link would have been appreciated.

Just read the article, it's all there for those who can be bothered!

Logging off to give you plenty of time, no pressure.

Where is the aggressive shouting? If I may, I would like to ask the same question too. What demands did Cameron take to Europe and what did he come back with ... No shouting, clear and simple.

MaisieD. I think I need to point out that shouting at me in that aggressive way will get you nowhere! All I am prepared to do is to refer you to an article, ' The great miscalculation of David Cameron's negotiations, and the E.U referendum campaign'. By:- Dr Andrew Glencross, senior lecturer in international politics at the University of Stirling, and senior fellow of the foreign policy research institute. (EU referendum analysis 2016)

MaizieD, the UK already had exceptional terms no other country was allowed, like keeping Sterling and not being part of Schengen - which was totally unfair from the point of view of the other 27.

no Lemongrove, all the bankers and high finance I know are all gnomes of London and other parts of UK. You do seem to forget frequently that I have lived all my adult life in England, from the age of 19... so I am a lot more British than Swiss, you see.

Instead of being so rude and dismissive to D.C. you would have thought even the faintest possibility of us leaving would have rung alarm bells and positive action to prevent this major upset acted upon!!!

@nellie Could you kindly tell me exactly what demands Cameron took to Europe for negotiating and what exactly he came back with?

NB, Ally before you start composing a 50 page essay on this topic would you please note that I am specifically asking nellie for an answer, not you. Taking it upon yourself to speak for the Leavers is not helpful when one is asking a specific Leaver for specific information.

Also, if nellie doesn't answer I'll assume it's because she doesn't know the answer.

I remember just after the referendum watching a Greek politician being interviewed on Newsnight (I think) and he basically said, in not in so many words, that we had landed ourselves with an appalling job. The EU were virtually impossible to deal with, would make our lives a complete misery for daring to defy them, and basically good luck, you're going to need it!!! I remember the feeling I had of apprehension. I think that instead of being so angry, perhaps the commissioners should have at the offset, asked themselves why we wanted to leave, and maybe even discussed in a civilised way some sort of damage limitation, instead of launching themselves at us with such fury. It seems so strange to me that having derided us for being that unimportant little island off northern europe, treated us for years with barely concealed contempt, that the idea of leaving has caused such a furore!! Did it never occur to them that we might actually become a little fed up with this attitude despite the fact that it would appear that our contribution to EU coffers is, as it now turns out, extremely important?!!! Instead of being so rude and dismissive to D.C. you would have thought even the faintest possibility of us leaving would have rung alarm bells and positive action to prevent this major upset acted upon!!! The arrogance and contempt from Herr Junker in particular was, to say the least, unhelpful and made a lot of people even more determined to leave this nest of vipers.
How Mrs May keeps going is heroism beyond the call of duty, she has an amazing strength of character, a lesser person, well actually any person in our present political scene would have folded long ago. I personally salute this lady.

Today another post mentioned the Lib Dems, as a party, rather than those who are not members and sometime vote Lib Dem. When the UK leaves the EU the Liberal Democrats, who have built the party on being pro EU will have a gaping hole in their policy's and election mandates. The Lib Dems have some excellent policy's however, I fear that the loss of the pro EU platform will of necessity cause a shift in the party with the loss of many voters.
Tim Farron as leader saw this and wisely in my view resigned to do what he does so well I am told and that is to be a first class local MP.

Lemongrove, query about the Gnomes of Zurich, perhaps all being Conservatives as one poster implied, is a valid query, and a mind boggling thought. I wonder what it is that give's them away??!!

Not moving in exalted circles, my knowledge of bankers is limited. My banker is the hole in the wall outside of Asda.

Nigglynellie just read your post's on this thread. I agree with every word. Your analysis of what is really going on with some of the EEA country's and with as we have read the EFTA country's, needs to have a very big light shone on what exactly the EU is. Once ensnared by the single market, and open borders, they can't get out when the agreements come up for renewal without conforming to some deeper entrapment by the EU. By the way, whilst Christine Lagarde is with the WMF, your right her track record would not stand up to scrutiny nigglynellie. Great realistic posting.

Should say also, you asked the question "can we ever escape", my view is from seeing what is going on elsewhere, with countries either in the EU or EFTA, Switzerland, Greece to name some, and the reactions to the EU from Hungary, Slovenia, Italy etc, my view is that the only way out is to leave.

The criticism of the negotiations that our Government is trying to have with the EU, is astounding, when you know, just how intransigent the EU is. How, glad I am that we did not join the common currency, and a number of other area's . My view is that we are heading for a Brexit without single market access or customs union and that if the EU is not careful we will say s_d it, and reduce the transition period or not have one at all.

Our Banks as the Bank of England test stress has shown is ready and can sustain the pound if it does take a dip, and it has the insurance promise from Parliament to sustain banking arrangements for both banks and companies in the EU and in the UK with temporary licence certificate. We are ready. The EU isn't.
The veneer is falling off, the propaganda, misinformation, and scare tactics that the EU and other supporters have employed in a dastardly way, are failing.

Italy have chosen to ignore the EU if it does not benefit Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovenia are doing the same. The EU has created the very thing it once sought to destroy, extreme politics in Europe, and I fear more resistance to the EU trap is to come. The country's of the EEA, and EFTA once they see that free trade is possible, and other full partnership treaties can be negotiated, outside the EU, the EU will crumble.
Let's see if the Swiss being so dependent on the single market, have the will to vote for their freedom. This country was neutral throughout WW11, surrounded by fighting, and slaughter. Let us hope that a little of that self preservation is left.

Every single banker I know is Conservative, for sure
It depends on the definition of 'banker' of course.

There are about 8,000 banks worldwide; some of the employees one would term 'bankers' and others bank employees.
There are other financial institutions besides those banks.

You certainly move in a world of movers and shakers Jura
Are they all Gnomes Of Zurich?

I do happen to know quite a few, from local bank managers to City Bankers and Traders and CEOs of the largest financial institutions... and yes, they are all Conservatives. It goes with the job, for all sorts of reasons. Makes sense if you think about it.

Doctors and dentists are a totally different kettle, and a much more mixed bunch altogether.

Do doctors and dentists all vote the same way? ( No.)

jura you say ‘every single banker I know is a Conservative
For sure’......you know loads of bankers, and they all tell you this?
Occupation doesn’t always mean bankers vote Conservative
Artists vote Lib Dems, actors vote Labour, builders vote UKIP.It’s not so simple in the real world as on Gransnet.

So he was. So strange for someone who spent most of his adult life decrying the H of L's to suddenly accept a peerage!! I wonder why?!!, makes you despair really!!

I thought Prescott was a ship's steward...

Blair was a lawyer too before he became an MP. All this is easy enough to check up on.

Switzerland has done very well out of EFTA ... no bullying there. When you join a Club, or sign a Contract, you read it all thoroughly before you sign, and balance out pros and cons. If you suddenly want to change the rules or not abide by them, and the other members refuse, this is not bullying at all. No cake and eat it applies to all.
As said before, the UDC/SVP anti EU and free movement party is allied to the rxtreme right, and represents mainly the central, very traditional, German speaking parts of Switzerland.

Every single banker I know is Conservative, for sure. I wonder what the percentage of Labour bankers?

Were Blair, Mandelson, Prescott, Chakrabati all bankers?

Some might have been lawyers, but that's a different profession.