Unintended consequences of brexit

Well said & Don’t worry Gill57, those you have mentioned will never understand. Closed shop, closed minds, mutual admiration society, no others welcome to comment . As forthe self belief, I’m not sure if it’s admirable or scary ?

I just hope that the unpleasant xenophobia on this thread from the Brexit camp, is not a foretaste of what will happen widely in Britain after Brexit.

GillT have to say your post gave ne a wry smile.
Left wing posters on political threads used to, and still do say ‘well said’ and ‘spot on’ to each other if they felt like minded about comments.
You ( and some others) dislike what Ally and I have to say on politics/Brexit etc therefore you claim to be sick of it.
Well, tough!
Exactly what Jalima says, there is no like button so posters
Have to actually say it.
I say it to many different people btw on many threads.

but surely I am not the only one sick of the ally and lemon mutual appreciation society, all this 'well said ally' is getting irritating.
I must say that you saying that Gill reminded me of some posters who have now left who were always patting each other on the back.

If you like someone's post, why not say so - we don't have a 'like' button (and I don't want one either) but there is no other way of saying so.

Well said Ally

^ but surely I am not the only one sick of the ally and lemon mutual appreciation society^
What's wrong with saying you like someone's posts?
Better get used to it. Could be a lot more before the glorious day, March 29 2019.

Jura2 Do not grieve for the UK. I assure you Brexiteers are not living in the past, Brexit is about the future. Remaining in the EU is living in the past.

The EU was, is of a time past, it came into being, it made itself, it was unelected, it was formed and has brought unto itself unelected power, that has gone largely unquestioned by the general public. Politicians have become more and more uneasy about the controls and power the EU has taken unto itself, not only in the UK, but you see discontent throughout the EEA.

The 'ever closer union' is something that the UK has never been comfortable with, and it was one of the issues David Cameron brought up, and was ignored, along with the other area's of concern that were dismissed.

Brexit is a brave new future. You can see, that to remain is status quo, to leave is to reach out to the world, free trade opporunities available to us up to 1973, once again open up.

A protectionist EU with 27 country's a lot of those with high unemployment, financial trouble, and political affiliations being driven to extremes, these are symptoms of over control, feelings of lack of self determination, and not being able to do anything about it, because the EU does not listen, it is intransigent, rule based, rigid and old fashioned not up to the demands of trade, business, the needs of citizens in the twenty first century.

So Brexiteers are not looking back to the past, "the past is another country".

I have tried to keep off this particular thread, but just having read the previous week's worth of posts, I have to say there are a few on here who need to take a good look at themselves and their motives for voting as they did. The attack on Jura is grossly rude and inaccurate, and despite her politely explaining why she feels British and why they are in Switzerland ( nobody's business) there are snarky, nasty remarks about just how British she is, about Swiss neutrality, about whose Father suffered the most, who started the war...etc....etc. The anti-German rants are most distasteful, but have shown the true motives for a lot ( but not all) of the GN Brexit camp. Oh, and I know that I will likely get flamed for this, but surely I am not the only one sick of the ally and lemon mutual appreciation society, all this 'well said ally' is getting irritating. This thread needs to stop, it is appalling.

varian Tue 03-Jul-18 11:19:08
'The best deal for those of us who do care about the NHS is for us to remain in the EU. Any kind of "soft brexit" is obviously second best. The other possiblities hardly bear contemplating'.

The entire UK care about the NHS, that goes without saying. Why would remaining in the EU be the best deal for the NHS?

My husband has just reminded me that in fact the Daleks said 'You will be exterminated", even worse. Sorry for the miss quote.

Suzied, with 'friends' like the EU eurocrats, who needs enemies!
We will still be able to deal with, visit, and be 'friends' if that is the word you want to use, with Country's within the EEA.

Who will benefit, everybody! First we will not be paying 73 billion euro's into the EU. Second, we will be able to trade freely with the rest of the world, negotiation our own tariffs, and regulations. Third we will also have returned to our own law making sovereign status lost as POGS informed in his post, with the 1972 European Communities Act, and other treaties that hooked us into regulatory and EU Directives, almost under the radar. Although to be fair, at some point we had signed away our control, hopefully not realising the enormous consequences that would follow as the EU insidiously tightened it's control over our imagined, it seems
daily lives, Parliamentary democracy and laws.

We sensibly did not join the single currency, something to thank Gordon Brown for. We do have reduce payments thanks to MT's negotiated rebate which still exists. Other PM's did not do so good negotiating a better deal for the UK, hence David Camerons, Brexit.

So the question to ask is, how do you equate friendship to control. The EU is not our "friend", if we are talking about toddler concepts, than that is a great example of a word that is frequently used and is meaningless in this context. This is business, power, money, control, domination that is the EU. Homogenisation and destruction of difference, that is what the EU is about, "ever closer union". The phrase reminds me of the Dalek's "you will be destroyed, you will be destroyed".

If we look to the EEA Country's rather than the EU Eurocratic organisation, we have alignments and purpose in common with some and those traditional bonds will remain and perhaps become even closer, you might want to call them 'friends', although it is not an appropriate adult word in my view to describe these sorts of relationships.

The bold statements about "isolation", "few friends". How did you come up with that? I would love to have some facts, behind that statement, what makes you say that, have you some evidence that we could share?

Our negotiators, Politicians and civil servants face challenges that we can't even imagine, let alone be able to deal with as they negotiate and administrate our way out of the clutches of the EU. It is so easy to criticise, and knock, without any real understanding of what is involved. These people must be brave, tough, and willing to put up with people who can do nothing other than gripe at them. These are our representatives doing their best without a road map, because no one has ever escaped from the EU before. The UK is in uncharted waters to get us out of a backward looking EU and into the twenty first century, how brave is that!

The best deal for those of us who do care about the NHS is for us to remain in the EU. Any kind of "soft brexit" is obviously second best. The other possiblities hardly bear contemplating.

A hard Brexit is very likely to destroy the NHS as we know it.
If U.K. makes trade treaties with America (or the rest of the world under WTO rules) we will be forced to allow foreign countries to bid for NHS contracts.
It would lead to the privatisation of the NHS.
I wonder if that’s what Leavers thought they were voting for?
A softer Brexit deal should help the NHS survive.
That’s apart from the severe shortage of medical staff that Brexit would create.

On a lighter note: my 5-year old grandson exclaimed the other day ”I don't understand why everybody is always talking about breadsticks”...
Greta

and no amount of our wittering talking will make a jot of difference

Perhaps not all those who voted Leave actually believed the lie on the bus, but there is no doubt that many did, they thought the NHS would benefit from brexit and it swayed how they voted.

Dr Rachel Clarke, a Palliative Care Doctor in the NHS, has told Nick Ferrari on LBC that "You can be Pro-NHS or Pro-Brexit... but you can't be both"

She insisted that with EU doctors and nurses "leaving in their droves", the Health Service is going to struggle once we leave the EU.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/cant-be-pro-nhs-and-pro-brexit-doctor/

Nothing to do with your being Swiss jura more the fact that posters find/found your comments to be annoying.
Your opinions have not been treated as worthless on either this thread or any other because you have dual nationality.I didn’t even know that you now live out of the UK.
Yes, leaving the EU has caused rifts, because some Remainers will not accept the result or that we are getting on with it.It has never been Leavers who have caused problems, most of us I should think, have been astounded by the level of hate coming our way for the last two years, it has been a form of mass hysteria.
Brexiters are not living in the past, although it may suit Remainers agendas to say so.
I too grieve to see what is happening here....a civil war of words indeed, and all because those who voted Remain lost the referendum.
Another year down the line, and hopefully it will all cease, as we will have left the EU and can start looking forwards again.

lemongrove, my reaction to the result was not about us losing money...even though that was 50% of our income. If I remember, someone asked how people who have chosen to retire abroad would be affected. In our case btw, we didn’t move here to escape the UK, which I loved and was truly my home, but to look after my very elderly parents.

Of course we are worried about this massive loss of income, but we live frugally in th mountains and have everything we need. Loss of reciprocal health agreement would mean having to fork out about 600 pounds. month for basic insurance, and still pay the first 180 pounds before insurance kicks in, and 10% of everything. That would be a massive blow. But in our family, we all have dual nationality, so all doors would be open to us, and we could go and choose to live in a cheaper part of EU if we wished, now my parents have gone. Or we could go back to UK and make 50 to 60% profit in the process, just due to such low value for pound.

For me, us however, it is not about money. It is about our need in this cr@zy world, to work together on all fronts, security, research, environment, trade, finance, and so much more ... lest we become beholden to Trump’s America, or Putin’s Russia. No small country can achieve this on their own.

And for me, it is deeply emotional, as I hate to see this civil war of words, and the increase in intolerance and racism. I lived and taught for 35 years in the most multicultural town of th UK, which was an exemple to the rest of the country, and the world. Tolerance, openess, diversity, is what made Britain a fabulous place to live. Th rifts created by Brexit will take a very long time to get over, probably at least one generation, possibly more... divisions are very deep. If it all goes belly up...as is likely, those divisions will get deeper.

Divide and rule, Trump and Putin are just waiting and laughing.

I stayed away from GN for a very long time, due to those petty attacks, re me being born in Switzerland making me a second class citizen whose opinion is worthless.

I can take it all, and brush it off ... but if any of my UK friends read your comments, they would be up in arms for sure.

Some comments have proved one thing clearly, Brexiters are living in the past, hold still strong resentment against the Germans, and that xenophobia and immigration played a huge part.

If you can treat me like this, a British citizen since 1972, who moved to UK in pre EU days, white, sort of middle class (whatever that means) goodness only knows how you would treat others.

Personally, I do not wish to take part in such pettiness, bitchiness, and more. I love Great Britain, always have, always will... and I grieve to see what is happening to it. Where I was born is not really relevant in th grnd scale of things.

On a lighter note: my 5-year old grandson exclaimed the other day ”I don't understand why everybody is always talking about breadsticks”...

suzied

" Talking to toddlers " or even 'Talking like a toddler ' is unfortunately not the sole domain of either ' Leavers or Remainers in general discourse when it comes to the EU Referendum.

If facts were the only information debated not guesses , maybes , political spin or propaganda, again from both sides we might be in a different place.

The worst kind of behaving like toddlers is when the right to hold an opinion is thwarted by insults and name calling which at times exceeds the boundaries and goes into the realm of outright nastiness.

Twas ever thus unfortunately.

Thank goodness the thread is getting back (sort of ) to the subject in hand and not derailed by personal anecdotes about the privations of life in a neutral country in WWII or the notion of “disrespect” implied in a patronising reference to Vera Lynn.

Wrong, Lemongrove. They simply don't want to be dragged into what could turn out to be an economic suicide pact that a tiny yes, tiny - majority voted for!

The toy throwing is coming from the cabinet. The inability to explain what Brexit means has been a continuous thread, and apart from the robotic “Brexit means Brexit” no one can tell us what it looks like as they haven’t yet come up with a plan.

suzied

Suzied .....amusing but that’s all ( no truth in what you say)
But to continue the toddler analogy, Remainers themselves are shrieking and throwing their toys out of the pram because they have been thwarted.
They want Nanny EU to never go away because they can’t put their shoes on by themselves and worry they may not have their favourite jam.
We should be governing ourselves ( totally!) and not crying for a governess.