Repeal the 8th

I've NEVER heard of anyone advocating abortion on demand until 40 weeks ...can you show me evidence that theres a case for it?

I think the difference between calling 'it' a baby or foetus tends to depend on whether it's wanted. From the moment I fell pregnant with DD I referred to her as 'baby'. But during a pregnancy scare where I was unsure of what I would do, I refused to think of a potential baby, not wanting to get attached.

Abortion is always going to be a divisive topic, and I think that's a good thing. I fully support the woman's right to abortion before 24 weeks, and after provided there is a medical reason. However, there are some who advocate for abortion at any stage of pregnancy, regardless of the reason. That I disagree with, one there is the ability for that baby/foetus to sustain life independent of the mother I think that abortion should only be allowed for medical reasons. If we didn't have people questioning the morality of abortion it could lead to situations where women could request abortions at full-term. I know that's unlikely as most women would be attached to the baby then but that's what some people are advocating for. I think we live in a world now where scientific advancements have come so far, but just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should. Somethings need to be questioned to ensure we don't go too far.

It is easier to speak of ‘a fetus’ I understand this, but for me even though I support abortion ,not on demand, they are babies , it would be difficult for a woman to say my baby was aborted so she chooses to say ‘I had a termination’ but I really believe those who support abortion do not want to speak of a baby.

My mother remarried after the war and sadly wasn't able to carry a baby full term. She had several miscarriages, some early on others later on,/nearly viable. These days, a simple problem easily rectified, then, an unresolvable condition. Later she told me that each one was a lost baby and mourned, not for what he/she might have been but for who they individually were.

Yes of course it’s sad to loose a wanted baby. None is denying that. Of course women who loose a baby talk about it as a baby, as the potential child they wanted to bring up. A woman who has a termination will say she’s had a termination, that helps her come to terms with that experience. The language use reflects the circumstances.

annie that’s very sad. Lots of sad stories behind this thread.

A woman who miscarries at 12 weeks does not say I miscarried my fetus . Two of my babies died at birth , I have no knowledge of their personalities or characters but they were my babies who I loved and still love . My younger daughter who had several miscarriages never once said to me ‘I have lost the fetus ‘ always ‘I have lost the baby ‘

A parent who miscarries a longed for baby will grieve for the potential child they were hoping to have, not the 12 week old undeveloped or unformed foetus, they will have no knowledge of that child’s personality or character, as it will not have developed.

A foetus is a potential child and not the same as a fully formed child with fully developed brain, lungs etc. The foetus at 12 weeks has little or no brain function and will not have emotions., recognition, memory etc

it is NOT a child at 12 weeks gestation
That was you at one point paddyann which begs the question - when did you become you and not, as you say, a part of someone else?

In my opinion it is a child , who speaks of the unborn fetus outside of the medical proffession, do women who miscarry say - I lost my fetus when it was three months

As to the jubilation its akin to women getting the vote in my opinion...puts them in the driving seat where control of their bodies is THEIRS .
And also control of another life which is not in fact theirs.

Yes, I agree with early abortion and for later ones if problems are found at a later stage.
But I would prefer to see 'relief' rather than 'jubilation'.

it is NOT a child at 12 weeks gestation.This sort of emotional claptrap is what makes some women hide abortions from family etc and have to live with the consequences for decades.I also went with a friend of my D when she was 15 ..for her abortion.Her parents were throwing her out of her home because she got pregnant,the father was a stupid violent boy who threatened to "kick it out of her" she had NO choice .She's a happily married mother of 3 now and yes she still remembers both the date of the termination AND the due date .It wasn't done without careful consideration or without pain .

I know it’s a woman’s choice , I know a baby cannot survive outside of the womb at 12 weeks, the womb is part of a woman’s body the baby is not

Yes but it can’t live independently of the mother so it’s part of her body. If it is outside of the mother before 12 weeks it can’t live. If a mother chooses to terminate its her choice. I know you think that irrelevant but for many people its a significant issue.

No it is in the woman’s body, not part of a woman’s body , it is not an organ or an abnormal mass it is is child

Before 12 weeks the unborn cannot live independently so is part of the woman’s body.

.mostlyharmless, I an not anti abortion I am against abortion on demand, I see it from the woman’s point of view but will not ignore a child dies.

Yes it gives women control not just their own bodies there is the unborn child too

maryeliza I totally support abortion rights in Ireland and everywhere else. You’ve said nothing to upset people who might have had an abortion but some posters are implying that abortion is a terrible thing to do.
I just feel that they should try to see it from the pregant woman or girl’s point of view in making that agonising decision.

Well if it’s that sensitive, don’t come on the thread

ilovecheese Quite. I was just trying to point out that this might be a very sensitive issue for some.

Many years ago someone close to me had an abortion. She was only 15 when she got pregnant. She didn't tell anyone until she had missed two periods, but her parents were as supportive as they possibly could be. They told her they would help her if she wanted to keep the baby, but she made up her mind that she wouldn't. The GP refused to help, but handed her a leaflet with a phone number for the Pregnancy Advice Service. We rang the number and were told she would have to have counselling before the termination, but that no appointments were available for FOUR WEEKS!!! So if she was (as we thought ) about 8 weeks pregnant this would mean she would be at least 12 weeks before she could see anyone. In the end her parents paid for her to go private with money they had saved to go on holiday - thank goodness they had the money as it was about £500 and not everyone could afford that. She was scanned and counselled - she admitted how bad she felt for women who couldn't conceive and how guilty she felt, but insisted on going ahead, so an appointment was made. She was warned that there might be protestors outside the clinic, but thankfully there weren't any that morning. I went with her to a room where a man came in with the scan photos and for some reason insisted on holding them up to the window in front of her - I will never know why he did that. Then she was taken away. She was needle phobic and told them she would have it done without any needles. The nurses were begging her not to, but she insisted so there was no anaesthetic when it was done. I sat in the waiting room nearby and could hear a whooshing noise and I just sat and cried for her. Afterwards they brought her back in and she was as white as a sheet - she had fainted and been sick, but she had gone through with it. She was poorly for a few days and then went back to school as normal. Nobody knew, not even her teachers. Every year on what would have been the baby's due date she does get a bit upset, but she still thinks she did the right thing. She went on to have two children, but she did suffer from serious depression, possibly caused by that, but most probably due to other problems she had as a child. Now, 15 years later she is happy and enjoying life with her children. She has a job she loves, but I know she did not undertake her decision lightly and she suffered greatly for it. I can't even imagine what it would be like for a girl in a similar situation in Ireland before the repeal. How many awful things would they have tried - gin, knitting needles, throwing themselves downstairs? I still remain disgusted at how she was let down by her GP and the NHS. I still remain uncomfortable with abortion, but I have always and will alway support the woman's right to choose. This young woman is only one example of the many I have spoken to who have had abortions. It could be anyone's sister, daughter or mother and they might not even know unless they can keep an open mind.

No Daddima, it's not only you! While on balance,I support the result, celebrating the ability to legally terminate a human life does not sit well with me either. My nurse friends experience haunts me too annie, so I can totally sympathise with you, and yes, the unborn can recognise its mother's voice and emotions together with other awareness.
I really don't think that this reform can be imposed on NI as has been suggested by Baroness (?) Chakribati, without a referendum. But maybe that's just me?!

The jubilations were completely and utterly appropriate - over 3 decades of fighting, of living in a country that exported its ‘problems’ , outsourced them; who made desperately sad women in the cases of fatal foetal abnormality travel to the caring and compassionate hands of the staff at Liverpool Women’s Hospital ;who didn’t care that women bled on planes,ferries,in taxis, who thought a raped 14 year old should be forced to term - yes most of us are absolutely jubilant that this will generally become a thing of the wicked past. I have nothing but the deepest admiration for all those who campaigned and fought to give wome choice - what amazingly brave people ( mostly women) they are - they deserved their celebrations,their moment in the sun and now they are turning their attention to NI and I and many others hope that there will eventually be something to celebrate there.

Sinn Fein not a religious movement, they are a political movement whose aim is a united Ireland.