England, no way sorry

Let’s face it, the Scots and the Irish (not NI) would far prefer to be ruled by Germany than by England.

NfkDumpling
I've done all the none eu/ eu borders.
Hungary/ Serbia/ Albania/ Macedonia/ Bulgaria.
Turkey/ Bulgaria. Romania/ Moldover.
The biggest problem for lorries is that the countries they are coming from/ going to, haven't got the latest technology at these borders. That doesn't apply to turkey, though. Millions of euros were put into those borders when Bulgaria and Romania joined the eu.
The biggest holdups we have seen is on the Serbia/ Bulgaria borders. But, the vast majority of these lorries will not be coming to the uk.

The EU border on the continent which I have used several times is the one between France and Spain. The border posts are totally abandoned and you just drive through. This is to do with the Schengen area more than the EU itself.

I think you will find if Rangers were in any Cup Final Celtic supporters would be cheering on the opposition. It’s not just a Scotland - England thing.

For the record . I voted remain and I’m glad that the people of Scotland saw sense at the referendum and voted to stay.

The difference is that each of the 27 states in the EU is equal in that they have a seat at the top table, a power of veto, while retaining full control of their own domestic stuff.

Is that true though Granny23 ?

I’m not sure that all members are infact equal ( maybe some are more equal than others) and isn’t losing the right to
make our own decisions and losing control, one of the reason that many /most voted to leave ?

Also isn’t it true that Scotland, just like Wales and NI has its very own top table ? It’s us English that have no parliament of our own.

I like the idea that Greece has equality with Germany Granny23, but I’m not at all sure how well it’s working in practice.

I agree that the four nations should be in direct control of all the domestic stuff. That would mean an English Assembly too. Perhaps that could be in Manchester! Then Westminster could just deal with defence and unimportant stuff!

As a matter of curiosity, as I’m not well travelled, does anyone have experience of how the borders work between all the EU countries and non-EU countries on the continent? The only one I’ve seen is between Turkey and Greece in Cyprus and you could have walked around the customs post with relative ease and the coach we were on was waved through on a nod.

I’m not sure how much the NI border problem is being blown out of proportion.

Thanks Muffin. I think the EU politians are studiously avoiding the position of Scotland if she wanted to stay inside the EU as an independent nation. I don’t think meeting criteria comes into it as several members states never have (apparently). Judging by the obstacles being put forward to us leaving the EU, Scotland trying to get in could drag on worse than Jardine v Jardine.

None of those countries is physically connected to Scotland or the UK (unless you count the Channel Tunnel) so why would they be joined together in any other manner?

The point of the football link isn't the football, it's the attitudes on display. The question wouldn't even have been asked if Scotland didn't have a reputation for being curmudgeonly.

As for Rangers & Celtic, about which I know almost nothing as I'm not religious or a football fan - surely, despite their rivalry, if only one of the two was in the European Champions League final all of Glasgow would want them to win? Or would they not?

nfk SAID "I don’t altogether understand though, those who wanted to break up the UK but stay in Europe, that being one of 27 is better than being one of 4*

The difference is that each of the 27 states in the EU is equal in that they have a seat at the top table, a power of veto, while retaining full control of their own domestic stuff.

In the Union of 4 nations that is the UK, there is no such equality. The largest Nation (England with 533 MPs) can outvote or overule the decisions of the 3 smaller Nations,(Scotland 59MPs, Wales 40 &NI, currently under direct rule from Westminster, a mere 18 MPs) even if all 3 of them voted in concert. Devolution of power, is power retained as the UK Government can rescind all or any part of the devolution settlements at any time.

As to supporting England in the World Cup, personally I have no interest whatsoever and will be supporting no one. Selfishly, I will be quite pleased if England is knocked out early on as we will then be spared endless coverage and chat about the whole thing. Sarah Smith was obviously just trying to stir it by asking the 'who will you support question' at the SNP Conference, while studiously avoiding asking delegates about the important issues being discussed. To my mind expecting Scots, of any political persuasion, to support their main rivals, is ridiculous. It is like asking Rangers fans to support Celtic just because they are both based in the same city. But what do I know? I have never understood the tribalism of football rivalries.

BTW - all this talk of 'near neighbours' reminds me that Dublin (192 miles) is closer to Glasgow than London (345 miles); Shetland is closer to Oslo (412miles) than London (650 miles). In fact, Brussels and Paris are much closer to London than most of the UK but we never hear of anyone wanting to unite with those close neighbours

merlotgran he never thought to mention it???

We're not the least bit interested in the World Cup but quite surprised to see someone we know on local telly tonight.

Apparently his son is the England goalkeeper.

I admit I am supporting Germany. This is because I have fifty quid on them and am hoping to get it back. I can confirm I am a pragmatist and would still be hoping for Germany to win if Scotland had dragged themselves to the tournament...

I support Scotland from the terraces, not at Ladbrokes, I’m no’ daft

I am a lifelong sad football obsessive though, so I will refrain from an assessment of England’s chances in the thread. I will regret missing out on those odds if Harry Kane proves me wrong though...

I just can’t take the World Cup seriously - I honestly don’t care who wins and I wouldn’t judge anyone’s choice of which team to support. There is so much corruption in FIFA that supporting anything to do with it seems to be joining in that corruption.

I'm not on Twitter either, Muffin, and don't get involved with big matters on FB, which for me is for cute kids and fluffy kittens.

I'm speaking of real life experiences, and to see prominent members of the SNP unable to bring themselves to support England in the World Cup is sending out a very poor message indeed of their attitude towards the English.

Sue I haven’t denied any racist incidents targeted at English people anywhere I posted. I deplore them. I deplore all forms of racism; there’s no place for it in a progressive society. I would absolutely report any such incident to the appropriate authorities as and when I was aware of one.

I firmly believe that when someone interprets a statement or gesture as racist, that person’s viewpoint should be heard and believed. I don’t engage in victim denying.

I don’t have anything to do with the cesspit that is Twitter, so I appreciate I probably miss out on the worse of the cybernats and EDL nonsense. Tribal pish, to be blunt.

I have no interest in denying that racist morons exist and no interest in defending their cause, either. You will not hear that argument from me.

Nfk I felt there were compelling arguments for an independent Scotland to be an EU member and voted accordingly. I considered that if the UK as presently constituted withdrew from the EU, it would be significantly more difficult in practical and probably political terms for Scotland to rejoin the EU. I also believed on the basis of the evidence I am familiar with that withdrawing from the EU even whilst remaining in the UK as presently constituted would negatively impact Scotland’s economy.

So do you think English people who say they've been subjected to hatred from Scots are making it up, Muffin?

I don't think anyone here is accusing you personally of hatred but to deny it happens anywhere is not credible. Such remarks may come with the proviso 'Not you, of course, you're ok.' or 'My brother-in-law is English so I'm not racist.'

I’m so glad you feel that way muffin. That’s exactly how I feel about wanting to come away from Europe. I was quite upset when some called Brexiteers racists, when all we want is independence. So yes, I see precisely where you’re coming from wanting to be free of the Westminster yoke (actually a lot of English feel the same). I don’t altogether understand though, those who wanted to break up the UK but stay in Europe, that being one of 27 is better than being one of 4.

I find this belief that I “hate the English” curious. I have absolutely no hatred whatsoever for English people. I’m not a swivel eyed racist and neither are the other Nats I know.

I just believe strongly in the principle of self determination. I believed in it strongly enough as a teenager to join the party. I believed in it strongly enough to vote Yes in the referendum.

I don’t go about in a St Andrews Cross and a tam o’shanter singing about Culloden.

I care about the folk living in my country - no matter where they are from, or their nationality, if they are here, they matter to me - and their prospects and a better future for us all.

I still believe the SNP represent the most realistic chance of that happening. If I change my mind about that, I will vote differently.

I have to be honest, English folk and the nation of England don’t factor into my decision making at all on that front. We live in a democracy, right? We all vote for what we agree with the most.

I wouldn’t call myself a massive fan SueDonim but quite enjoy watching the odd game especially if one of our home teams are playing.

I have to confess, Gillybob that I'm not a sports fan and don't actually watch any sport or do any active team supporting.

Oh I think by joining the SNP it was a given (no need for a tick box) muffin .

I couldn’t agree more SueDonim I would always support a home team before any other. I remember supporting Wales in the European cup in 2016 when they brilliantly got to the semi finals.

I joined the SNP decades ago as soon as I was old enough to do so.

I seem to have a strangely large number of English folk amongst my kith and kin for someone who “hates them”.

I must have missed out that bit on the application form...