Upskirting bill blocked

Agreed PECS - we’ve all worked with people like him I imagine,always able to say what is wrong but never coming forward with or putting effort into making things better. I guess with CFC that’s because it wouldn’t all be about him would it?

Indeed this man has said it is the process of Private Members Bills not the individual Bill he seeks to disrupt. He is paid a good salary (plus expenses) to represent his constituents. He has been an MP for a while. Why has he not set up a group , joined a group etc etc to investigate or reform the process..which is a part of the current legit. parliamentary process. If you can show me that he has done this but failed Ì will reconsider my contempt for this excuse for a Parliamentarian.

Exactly maryeliza

I absolutely fail to see how the process the bill would have ad to go through could be described as pushing through. Also his mate Philip Davies with whom he plans and executes these Friday afternoon wrecking jollies spentt 2 hrs filbusting before CFC shouted object which could have been spent debating this bill. Also the MP who introduced the Bill offered him a place on the committee in a bid to win his support. And finally it’s a very simple bill and as I’ve said before there is Scotlsnd’s experience to draw on. This over priveleged self absorbed sorry excuse for an MP has made a career out of not throwing spanners but bloody great diggers into parliamentary procedures ( trying to block a Hillsborough debate ffs) and then trying to claim the high moral ground. How anyone could think he actually gives one little f* for anyone beside himself t beyond me. And I don’t give one either if anyone in GN is related to him, married to him or a friend.

Of course he wanted to put a spanner in the works - it’s exactly what he did. He says he didn’t know what upskirting was! He deserves all the criticism he is getting. He is on Nick Ferrari’s programme this morning on LBC - will be interesting to see what he says in his defence. No doubt some mealy mouthed answer about procedural issues. I bet he argued against parliament having a “proper debate “about Brexit. Let’s hope NF doesn’t let him off lightly.

I don't think he was trying to put a spanner in the works. I think most people have jumped on an offence bandwagon about this. It was obvious right from the start to anyone who investigated deeper than a spider's web thickness that he is as disgusted by upskirting as anyone else. The issue was and is whether it is right to push through a law in the way it was being done when a custodial sentence was in the offing. Sending people to jail is not always the best option, and not only because it is often ineffective in changing criminal behaviour.

He has not been misunderstood - he has been understood all too well - we all know a self serving attention seeking failure when we see one

My thoughts too M0nica (about him being the doppelgänger of Jeremy C)

However, he has said that he has been misunderstood, he is for the legislation but wants it to be debated properly.

Which we seem to be doing quite well on here, if he cares to read this thread.

Chope seems to be the Conservative version of Jeremy Corbyn, when he was a back bencher, always being awkward, always trying to put a spanner in the works, just awkward and difficult for the sake of being awkward and difficult.

Let us add to the gaiety of the nation by putting him forward to be the next Conservative leader. The thought of Chope and Corbyn face to face over the dispatch boxes, which ever side either of them is on, should confirm totally just what a laughing stock both parties are.

I sincerely hope he has indeed “shot hinself in the foot”. In fact I hope he is feeling very uncomfortable at the moment. Hideous man and TM saw for to put him forward for an Honours award. Why did she do that? People like him are not required in any position of power.

often= of men

Those who don't believe this happens or thinks we don't need a new law high might like to see this short clip made by the woman who pioneered the bill as she was told that police couldn't do anything about her experience. Shows some cctv often doing this.

youtu.be/Y-ica8bbyQs

women should be able to wear skimpy skirts if they wish. However you dont have to be wearing a skimpy skirt to be targeted. It's probably easiest if you are wearing a loose skirt and a longer skirt may just make it easier for someone to hide what they are doing.

Anyone can be affected by this - you are standing on a tube and the man sitting down has his camera out. You can be walking along the street and have someone bend down as if to pick something up.

Existing law is not adequate, the police say that.

Judges have discretion within the maximum permissible sentence, this would give them more sentencing options.

I think he may have 'shot himself in the foot' with this jenpax.

Perhaps people, including his constituents, were unaware of his perpetual habit of stopping PMB from being debated. Well, everyone seems to be aware now and I think that the results will be shown either by deselection or in the ballot box.

I can understand someone making an occasional objection on valid grounds, but his continual objections on spurious grounds seem to be more from the position of someone seeking to make himself seem more important than he is.

Or, as my DMIL would have said 'He's too clever for his own good'.

I have followed this with great interest as a former Christchurch resident and with family and friends still living in the constituency. The local feeling on the ground is of genuine anger against Chope even amongst Tory supporters (admittedly I don’t know many of these!) but I think he is doing his career as an MP more harm than he knows. He has also angered a second vocal group of animal lovers with his opposition to the violence against police dogs bill.
He forgets that most of his constituents in this (one of the smaller constituency) will be parents to daughters, aunts or uncles of girls or grandparents of girls!
I am a mother of 3 daughters,(who grew up in Christchurch) and grandmother to 3 small granddaughters living in a neighbouring town. I am both disgusted and appalled by this man’s behaviour and hope with all my heart that he is either deselected for next election (unlikely) or voted firmly out of the door?????

The proposer of the bill, LibDem MP for Bath, Wera Hobhouse writes - "Individuals like Christopher Chope will not succeed in stopping progress. We will change the law to make upskirting a specific offence. Read my piece in The Guardian on today’s events."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/15/law-change-upskirting-tory-mp-bill-christopher-chope.

The law must change. One Tory MP won’t stop us.

twitter.com/Wera_Hobhouse/status/1007732319527079936

If anyone is wondering, 'Victorian women' means women in the state of Victoria, but applies to all of us I think.

I do think it is getting worse varian.

And also varian attitudes have changed as to what women and girls should put up with

This is scary stuff for those of us with lovely daughters and grand-daughters. Thinking back to when we were young, bad things certainly did happen, but perhaps we are now so much more aware of the dangers.

inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/dont-wear-skirts-and-nine-other-ways-people-can-protect-themselves-from-crime/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This is good

Great post Jalima1108 and of course, thanks to Eloethan for pointing out that once again, the focus is being turned to children and women who are victimised in this way. Why is it seen as acceptable for boys at school to use their mobile phones to 'upstart' the girls ?

Baggs - I understand the points you're making but, the reality is that we need to change the law so that people can be prosecuted for offences like filming women up their skirts. Particularly offensive is the way some of these men then put their movies on you tube, especially if the woman/girl is menstruating. I haven't read the latest research but it seems highly likely to me that men who behave in this way may well go on to, or are already involved in, other sexually exploitative behaviour towards women. It was once believed that "flashers" were harmless, pathetic men who got their rocks off by flashing and wouldn't escalate to more dangerous forms of sexual behaviour. Why would we believe that men who 'upstart' aren't a threat? Why would we believe that community service is the obvious place to start, rather than some form of challenging work on their behaviour. Oh yes, that'd be because we're demolishing alternatives to custody wouldn't it

That was in response to Eloethan's post btw: then that sounds like putting the onus on the girl or woman being photographed rather than the man doing the photographing.

I saw this today about a young Australian woman who was killed when she was on her way home - nearly there, nearly safe:

E*****e died because of her attacker's decisions – not because of her own.
They're right. And we need to accept that fact, too.
We'll never change a thing until we do.
We'll never change this culture of violence against women. All women.
We'll never change the fact that one woman in this country dies every week at the hands of a partner or former partner – someone they loved, in the safety of their own home.
We'll keep asking "Why didn't she leave him?" instead of asking "Why did he hurt her?"
We'll keep asking "Why was she alone in the dark?" instead of asking "Why was he?"
We'll keep ignoring the real problem, instead of actually fixing it.
So our message to Victorian women is this:
Stay home. Or don't.
Go out with friends at night. Or don't.
Go about your day exactly as you intend, on your terms.
Because women don't need to change their behaviour.
Men do.

I’ve been looking more into why current legislation isn’t adequate. At the moment upskirting can be prosecuted under ‘outraging public decency’ legislation. For this to be successful the public has to be outraged and therefore the act of upskirting has to be witnessed. Further even when this happens, it is not a sexual offence, the victim cannot have anonymity and the perpetrator will not be placed on the sex offenders register. Using OPD legislation is not to do with harm to the victim but about the public being offended. In addition, it is not illegal to distribute such images. The other way to prosection is through voyeurism legislation but that only covers filming in private. The Scottish legislation makes it a soevific sexual offence so anonymity,SOR comes in . It also makes the distribution of such images illegal.

Rescuing a worthwhile pbm in circumstances like this is unusual but I’m pretty sure that the piggybacking on a current bill to only way to do it relatively quickly. An amendment to existing legislation would take longer as would bringing in a new public bill. Baggs I do think that informed opinion is saying that existing legislation just doesn’t work for upskirting as it seems to fall between the gaps - are there any links to Scottish articles which are critical of the Scottish legislation and which suggests it was unnecessary ? Genuine question - I‘ve no idea