Upskirting bill blocked

This is so not a party issue. Trying to make it one just takes away from the real issue. However, this particular MP is not one to be commended and I still don’t understand his knighthood - I suppose there’s a list in date order of being elected and his name was top at New Year. Actually I don’t know why any MPs are knighted actually I don’t know why anyone is knighted ( but that’s for another thread)

A lot of women, including Gransnetters, have said that they do not wear knickers these days.

Well, next time I go out in a skirt I will be wearing proper bloomers.

The perverts of England and Wales?
We heard this over the car radio when we were travelling home today and DH queried whether or not this idiot is a pervert.

I see that you have already suggested that maryeliza!

thats the tories for you,vile people
I agree with Paddyann.

So you agree with paddyann then, varian, in her illogical conclusion that all tories are vile people because of one renegade and very stupid MP when all the rest of the House was prepared to pass this amendment?

I suggest a group of Gransnetters (perhaps with the help of Mumsnetters) find him, debag him and start taking photos.

His behaviour was outrageous.

That’s why we need the legislation - read the link.

When was the last time anyone was convicted?

www.apccs.police.uk/latest_news/new-law-needed-make-skirting-sexual-offence

The "do we actually need more legislation to deal with this" is coming up on Twitter.

You can check her out on joannawilliams.org, mel. She talks a lot of sense.

Silly old codger. A disgrace to his party.

I don’t know who Joanna Williams is but making something illegal makes women victims? Like beating or raping your wife?Oh yes I get it now - think how the crime figures could go down

current legislation is not effective and therefore is rarely being used.

The Scots have legislation against "upkilting" - an MP on TV this morning commented that since that covers both sexes it had got through faster.

If I had voted for the creep who blocked it I'd hang my head in shame and try to get him deselected.

Baggsthere is no legislation at the moment in E&W - why do you think the Government was prepared to give time for it and why did Scotland legislate 10 years ago? Thank you muffin for using appropriate language. I’d certainly read about the ‘premium’ on photos including tampon strings or menstrual blood.

One of the prominent users and moderators of the upskirting communities on Reddit was this guy.

The article that revealed his real identity does not contain any photos, but the text of the article is in parts graphic.

This is the reality of who these offenders target.

gawker.com/5950981/unmasking-reddits-violentacrez-the-biggest-troll-on-the-web

I think we all agree with what you've said in your last sentence, muffin.

I'm surprised by the apparent need for more legislation though and wondering why (or even if) current legislation on sexual pestering (such as exposure by males in public places) does not already cover upskirting.

The outline of the labia within the underwear and any visible buttock or pubic hairs, particularly on schoolchildren who are the most common and sought after victims of this offence.

There are also people who particularly seek out pictures with sweat stains or evidence that the girl was menstruating (tampon strings, period stains etc). Those suggesting the girl is wet feom sexual arousal or “dripping come” are the most sought after.

Most posters on the now banned subreddits devoted to upskirting were open that the violation of privacy and non consensuality of the photography was the most arousing part of the offence.

Some people are willing to not take the photos themselves finding other people’s photos sufficient for their masturbatory needs.

I appreciate this post contains deeply unpleasant information, but the people who engage in this offence display extremely unpleasant conduct towards girls and very young women.

Joanna Williams is arguing that the idea of making upskirting a criminal offence (as opposed to a moral one, which it already is) is yet another way of making women into victims.

I get her point, especially after that recent case of a woman in a TV studio complaining about being upskirted. In that instance the camera operator was a woman and the complainant was wearing a short skirt that revealed most of her thighs even from a downskirt point of view.

So what are they admiring? Seriously.

It’s not the fashion of the lingerie the perverts are “admiring”...

Someone one Twitter said something about taking pictures of women's genitals. Um... perhaps I am being dense or naive or something, but don't women who wear skirts wear knickers as well nowadays?

varian exactly, so who exactly is he representing here? The perverts of England and Wales? (Scottish legislation already done) This is hardly a controversial measure. It’s also weird as whatever to choose sexual offending and maiming police dogs as your hills to die on if this is a matter of principle....

Although I had forgotten his carry on over Alan Turing. Funny principles, these

gangy. You’re switching the argument. The Govt had agreed to give it time, they had decided it was worth it. It’s completely wrong for him to do what he did - Scotland did it 10 years ago - our girls and women deserve the same

I met Jeremy Thorpe when he was party leader in the 1970s. He came to a social event in our little town to meet the Liberal supporters. He had been to our town some years before and had met some of the party faithfull.

He recognised a formidable older lady whose name was Miss Gass and strode across the room with his hand outstended and said "how delightful to meet you again, Miss Bagg"

I think Telly is spot on - 95% of the public and all political parties wanted this Bill passed - so there is something wrong with a system that allows one person to say "I object" and the Bill is lost. System needs to be changed.

Whoops - my mistake. JT was though feted within his party