Gransnet forums

News & politics

Likely consequenses of brexit

(830 Posts)
varian Tue 03-Jul-18 20:40:02

If brexit happens, as I fear it probably will, the consequences, both intended and unintended, are likely to damage this country to an unprecedented extent.

As it is the most important political issue of our times, I believe we should continue to discuss it on GN, but we must be prepared for a continuence of the blind unreasoning dogma we have had so far from the little band of brexitextreemists on GN who will just keep their fingers in their ears.

Even so, I think it is important to continue to seek out the truth. We owe it to our children and grandchildren.

Allygran1 Tue 10-Jul-18 00:24:46

varian Mon 09-Jul-18 12:42:23
"Unsurprisingly, because he was heavily outnumbered by the brexiters amongst the guests, he was shouted down, but I thought he was the only one to make sense."

Well you would, wouldn't you Varian.

varian Tue 10-Jul-18 10:25:59

The two key hurdles for the Prime Minister on Brexit remain the same.

First, what concessions will the EU force on her? Key European figures have been noticeable by their silence on social media in the last few days. They don’t want to push May over the edge. But eventually they will have to negotiate, and the concessions they demand won’t go down well in a Britain already deeply restless about the existing proposals.

Even the Chequers plan as it stands has been called the “biggest loss of UK sovereignty since accession in 1973” by Sir Ivan Rogers, the UK’s former ambassador to the EU and no friend of Brexit.

Second, can May get it through Parliament? The PM ordered Labour MPs to be briefed on the Chequers deal in a clear message that she is happy to survive on opposition votes. Yet the briefing went badly and the chances are that Labour would rather defeat the Government on Brexit and force an election.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/10/front-bench-vote-customs-union-coming-brexiteers-will-have-tread/

Note the term "loss of sovereignty". We have sovereignty now and the best way to retain it is to remain in the EU where we will play our part in the introduction of any new regulations, and of course retain our veto.

varian Tue 10-Jul-18 20:14:32

Britain is now officially a banana republic with constant sunshine, collapsing government and a good football team.

The resignation of David Davis, and the inevitable rigged election between a well-intentioned socialist and a puppet of international finance that will follow, means Britain and its poor-but-smiling natives are now part of the developing world. Economist Norman Steele said: “Look at those barefoot children kicking a ball about in the dust where crops should be growing. They have nothing, but they’re happy. The resignation of David Davis, an incompetent only popular because he understands nothing and was once a soldier, will trigger a collapse of government and a spiralling debt crisis.

The people, indolent and disinterested because of their country’s blazing sun, will pay no attention to an election corrupted by foreign money and wave through the appointment of a despot who’s good on the telly. And then the football team will win the World Cup and make everything seem okay. It’s the full package.”

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/britain-officially-a-banana-republic-20180709175140

Jalima1108 Tue 10-Jul-18 20:27:00

at least you seem happy varian

varian Tue 10-Jul-18 20:34:11

I wish I could be happy when I think about the future of this country Jalima. I try to be optimistic and hope that before it is too late, enough folk will see sense.

Jalima1108 Tue 10-Jul-18 20:38:27

I thought you'd be happy - all the hard Brexiters falling by the wayside and in fact, it all seems to be 'falling apart at the seams'

Jalima1108 Tue 10-Jul-18 20:40:19

I was having a wry grin about the Banana Republic reference, remembering Australia's series of Prime Ministerial losses (not meaning Harold Holt of course) - and they grow bananas there too.

lemongrove Tue 10-Jul-18 23:22:56

Some posters don’t like cut and paste articles Varianso you may be getting your knuckles rapped.wink

lemongrove Tue 10-Jul-18 23:25:05

If only we really could grow bananas here, that would be great! I would certainly want a grove of them in the garden, along with lemons, slurp.

varian Wed 11-Jul-18 12:21:58

Talking of bananas- should the so-called European Research Group, focus of bananas ultra-brexit conspiracy, be funded by the British taxpayer??

Currently the ERG is funded partly by taxpayer money. Is it beneficial to the taxpayer to fund a cabal of Tory MP’s, headed by Rees-Mogg, who no matter what ‘research’ they carry out will still settle at the same conclusion that the CU, Single Market and EU as a whole is bad for the country?

Anna Soubry said: “The ERG operates like a party within a party”. She added she was “surprised that it’s [ERG] being funded by taxpayers especially as it is a single issue organisation and would be of little use to a Conservative MP who doesn’t support their views.”

www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/8ln29x/should_the_erg_be_funded_with_taxpayer_money/

jura2 Wed 11-Jul-18 17:50:12

So, stockpiling spam and baked beans,

and medicines too:

www.ft.com/content/44304c7e-8461-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929

and when we run out to treat people with severe illnesses and cancers and we have no staff to run hospitals, at all levels, and no moeny coming in to run NHS anyway, remainers will of course be blamed ...

www.ft.com/content/44304c7e-8461-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929

varian Wed 11-Jul-18 19:40:46

It is interesting Jura that you give links to the FT. Hardly a left-wing paper.

jura2 Wed 11-Jul-18 20:16:40

perhaps because I am not 'left wing' - per se.

I was brought up and educated to see things from all angles, and come to independent thinking and conclusions- not follow the mob - left or right

varian Wed 11-Jul-18 21:47:27

This should never be about the political left v right. Both the Tory and Labour parties have been let down by leaders who said we should remain in the EU but then caved in to the demands of the billionaire brexiters who have tbe real power in this country.

jura2 Wed 11-Jul-18 21:59:35

Just listened to the Independent Debate. What a hero Dominic Grieve is - a true Conservative who understands just that varian - and he has my utmost admiration. Chuka and Gnal Miller were great too - unlike Andrea Leadsome and Rees Mogg- who were indeed arrogant and swarmy.

Jalima1108 Wed 11-Jul-18 22:04:26

I have no intention whatsoever of stockpiling spam. shock

jura2 Wed 11-Jul-18 22:29:17

OK I conceed - I have never been British enough, since 1972, to eat spam. So there- you finally have proof, enjoy and savour it smile

Jalima1108 Wed 11-Jul-18 22:49:13

I only ate it once - I had a go at making spam fritters.
The dog enjoyed them.

MaizieD Wed 11-Jul-18 23:13:14

We used to have spam fritters for school dinners, late 50s early 60s, and sometimes at our grandparents' house with salad.. Is it still around?

I'd rather stockpile tuna and sardines...

jura2 Thu 12-Jul-18 09:07:50

I am very lucky and privileged to be in touch with a lot of the great 6th formers I taught for 30+ years in the UK (started late, went to Uni when youngest started school) ... and this is what Angela wrote to me yesterday- and I found it really moving (sharing with her permission):

Always strikes me how many people don’t see that being in the EU/SM has struck us the right balance between capitalism and socialism in many ways. Providing us with the markets and prosperity to create jobs, but at the same time creating a club where those markets can be tempered by employment rights, consumer rights and ethics.

Because ethics and protections cost money. In the world of the hard Brexiters we are heading to, they are an irrelevant nuisance to be removed as soon as possible because they eat into profits and remove some of the absolute power of the markets. Pure globalist capitalism - and disaster capitalism too- where people are an expendable commodity.

In Corbyn’s ultra socialist world, people do matter, collectively rather than individually, but can be sacrificed for the greater good of ideological aims, just the same. And ethics and rights still cost money, and still need the commitment to upholding them from everyone who’s in the trading game. Whatever Corbyn thinks he wants, we just won’t have the money and we won’t have any say in the rules, on our own against countries like the US (particularly Trump’s US), who do not share those commitments.

This is what Brexit means.

jura2 Thu 12-Jul-18 09:10:46

In the meantime, Trump and Putin are planning to destabilise, weaken and split the EU - just at a time when we need to be strong and together - to realign the world order and combine with Russia against China, with EU as a vassal state. Even Fox News understands this ...

And THAT more than anything else, is the scariest thing ever...

jura2 Thu 12-Jul-18 15:41:11

Here are Dominic Grieve's chilling predictions, based on reality.
youtu.be/fNCwcTu9U6U

jura2 Thu 12-Jul-18 15:42:13

apologies - wrong link. Could admin please delete. Such a shame there is no edit function here.

jura2 Thu 12-Jul-18 15:43:34

Here it is:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-latest-eu-uk-dominic-greave-jacob-rees-mogg-cbi-a8443241.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1531353256

varian Thu 12-Jul-18 16:32:21

Steve Bannon, who served as Mr Trump’s chief strategist during the first month’s of his term, held a meeting in London last night ahead of today’s UK visit. He used the event to praise ‘Trumpism’ and explain how his style of leadership could help the UK - especially as the Brexit process continues to teeter towards collapse.

He said: “Trump’s got a big group of support here, with Nigel and the hard Brexit crowd that has all worked together for years. I’m here to be a surrogate on British media. Here, in terms of Brexit, they’re saying ‘hey, we’re up on the second year anniversary of this thing, and we're still talking about half in half out. We have to be bold. I think Trump coming here underscores the point that he's about bold action.”

Other notable guests included Nigel Farage and right-wing French politician Louis Aliot, who is also populist Marine Le Pen’s boyfriend.

www.express.co.uk/news/world/987878/brexit-news-donald-trump-uk-visit-steve-bannon

I wonder what leave supporting GNetters think about this.