Likely consequenses of brexit

Exactly Maizie- the Government can decide what it wants to negotiate, but as they know it cannot be accepted by the EU- as it goes totally against the basic principles of the EU - then the question is 'is it deliberate to force the no deal option'.

Lies, lies and more lies. As Obama so rightly said today in SA:

www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10156068482631939/

The government has now spent more than two years negotiating with the Conservative Party.

It was utterly irresponsible of TM to trigger Article 50 at a time when they were in no position to start negotiating because they did not know what they wanted.

One of the biggest lies of the brexiters, which we hear repeated over and over again is "we all knew what we were voting for ".

The truth is none of them knew what they were voting for. How many understood the difference between a hard and soft brexit, let alone jumping off the cliff with a no deal?

How many leave voters even thought about the NI border?

How many thought that EU immigrants were costing this country money when in truth they contribute far more than they take?

How many leave voters ever questioned the opinions of the right-wing gutter press or wondered why the billionaire proprietors were telling them to vote leave?

It won’t just be unfortunate for me MaizieD but unfortunate for you as well as every person who lives in the UK if the EU rejects a fair proposition.
We could end up walking away, but who knows, in the end that could be the best solution if the above does happen.
My feeling now, is that the EU will do a deal with us, because they have been expecting to all along.
Our own politicians are now the sticking point as to our getting a good deal though, as they continue playing silly buggers.

Who are these silly buggers?

Any extreme Brexiter or extreme remainer trying to wreck the Chequers deal because it doesn’t suit them personally.
It’s a sensible solution that should suit most people and has a chance of the EU accepting it.
If the government is defeated over this, I don’t think they should struggle on but have a GE.If Labour wins then Corbyn can try and sort out a deal that Parliament agrees on.Good luck with that.

Both leaders say they will honour the referendum, but their own backbenchers are falling over backwards not to.

The government has just won on the crucial vote by six votes.

It is not sensible to blindly follow the wishes of 17 million UK residents who voted leave and ignore the 48 million UK residents who did not vote for brexit.

Especially when two important facts have now been established.

1-Those who voted leave were manipulated by lies.

2-Most leave voters had no idea whether they were voting to do incalculable harm to the British economy , to their job prospects and the future life chances of their children and grandchildren

Varian you are nothing if not dogged in your persistence!

Yes - and she is right!

It won’t just be unfortunate for me MaizieD but unfortunate for you as well as every person who lives in the UK if the EU rejects a fair proposition.

They haven't been offered a 'fair proposition', lemon. They haven't actually been offered anything yet; last nights Commons hoo haa was about accepting the white paper before it went to the EU.

May has rejected everything that would have made withdrawal easier.

I'd try to clarify but I'm not wasting any more words on you.

As for being unfortunate for me?

I don't have a job to lose or a family to provide for; I can afford to stock up on food and essentials and grow my own veg; I don't need to travel abroad; I can cope with power cuts; we have our own source of fuel for heating and we neither of us depend on regular medication. I think we'll be OK for a few months...

Oh, and we don't live in a town so I think we'll be safe from the rioters when the supermarkets are empty...

Not sure about keeping chickens again, though. They could well fall victim to two legged foxes...

better than the dogged silly buggers - whoever they are meant to be ;)

Ah, English is such a complicated language;)

The “Turd Way” is a great description of the Chequers Proposal.

MaizieD I did use the word IF.
You have no need to clarify anything for me thanks.
Sounds as if you’re about ready for your bunker.

Only if you are an extreme Leaver or extreme Remainer
crystal
The Chequers Proposal is a fair way forward to get a deal.

varian
Let's look at it this way:

It is sensible to abide by the wishes of 17 million UK residents who voted leave in a democratically held referendum because this is what democracy is. To lose democracy would unleash anarchy. Those who voted remain or couldn't be bothered to vote should stop the childish sour grapes and pick their teddies up and place them back in their prams.

Conversely to your assertions:

1-Those who voted remain were manipulated by lies.

2-Most Remain voters have no idea whether their voting remain would continue to do incalculable harm to the British economy , to their job prospects and the future life chances of their children and grandchildren

it is indeed lemon- and I was totally aware of how I used it, thanks.

The Chequers proposal cannot be agreed by the EU, that is very clear to all. So is it deliberately put together to force a no deal?

Joelsnan silly really.

More than 3 million EU citizens who were living in the EU and paying taxes were not permitted to vote, yet they, almost more than any of us , were affected by this brexitshambles.

The basis of democracy is "no taxation without representation"

varian - many thanks for your posts on this thread.

I'd like to say a word of support for Anna Soubry. Why is it that when a female politician speaks with passion and certainty, she's accused of being strident or having lost the plot. My view is that Anna Soubry believes what is is saying, and is courageous for doing so, especially in the tory party currently.

Iam64
Anna Soubry's constituents are stating on Twitter that she will not be returned at the next GE. Her constituency voted leave.

Anna Soubry is standing up for her principles, what she knows to be true, unlike far too many MPs, especially Labour MPs, who just want to be re-elected and do not appear to have any principles.

So she doesn’t care to represent her constituents?

The 48 million who didn't vote for Brexit varian really!!!

28% of those who could have voted didn't bother to vote.

51.89% voted for Brexit which equates to 17 million 410 thousand and 742.

48.11% voted remain which equates to 16 million 141 thousand and 241.

Where on earth did you get your constantly reiterated figure of 48 million who didn't vote for Brexit when the population of the UK is 65.64 million?

-^Those who voted remain were manipulated by lies.^

Considering all the lies speculative 'perhapses' and over exagerations that you've been promulgating on this thread I find that ironic.

2-^Most Remain voters have no idea whether their voting remain would continue to do incalculable harm to the British economy , to their job prospects and the future life chances of their children and grandchildren^

The tories were harming the UK economy by their ridiculous 'austerity' programme; nothing at all to do with the EU. The rest is just speculation on your part.

Anna Soubry's constituents are stating on Twitter that she will not be returned at the next GE. Her constituency voted leave.

In your bubble, maybe. 48% of her constituents voted Remain; maybe she's not as endangered as you'd like to think.