Likely consequenses of brexit

It's not about "allowing it to happen." It IS going to happen.

It is going to happen because arrogant Cameron was happy to play politics with everyone and called an inappropriate referendum (after which he cut and ran with his £millions); because the "debate" prior to the referendum was conducted like a dog fight rather than a dignified provision of FACTS from economists and other experts on both sides of the debate, from which the public could make a reasoned decision; because attempts to get better deals for the UK on specific issues failed; because a large number of members of the public were sick to death of successive governments propping up bankers, speculators and rich plutocrats while subjecting everyone else to austerity measures - so they saw the referendum as a chance to give the government a bloody nose; because Cameron and his cronies were so complacent as to think that there was no need to create conditions for a referendum - e.g. minimum turn-out and margin. Basically the referendum was a massive cock-up from which there is no retreat.

No government can walk away from a publicly conducted referendum which has expressed the "will of the people." The fact that the public in general was not provided with the tools with which to make this important decision invalidates that argument; but no government is going to walk away from this.

Our membership of the EU did need to be examined critically (many citizens were deeply frustrated by some of its aspects) , like any large contract to which Britain is tied - but this should have been done by government and the qualified civil servants; having an ear to public opinion from all walks of life.

No-one had the nowse to see that the fear of terrorism was leading to a fear of immigrants and to realise what this might mean in terms of the referendum outcome.

We were stuck with an undemocratic plebiscite called for all the wrong reasons.

Add to that the monumental incompetence of the government negotiating team in relation to Brexit - particularly May who threw away our trump negotiating card when she set an end date for our exit with no offers on the table, leaving us open to a no deal situation - and it is a recipe for chaos.

But it IS going to happen.

We certainly must talk about it! There will be no future for our grand children if we allow this insanity to happen. We know the campaign was illegal, it was funded by top criminals behind a Far Right movement who are taking our democracy. They will asset strip our country, we have already seen many plans for developments disappear because the money has gone abroad ( Northern Powerhouse). Big parts of the NHS sold off. Now we find about the criminality behind the referendum vote. A spending limit is set to respect our democracy but Vote Leave had no respect for that.
We must not be silenced if we want to speak about it.

German cars will still be bought by Brits they’ll just be more expensive. I wonder how many British cars are bought by Germans?

From the OP

"As it is the most important political issue of our times, I believe we should continue to discuss it on GN, but we must be prepared for a continuence of the blind unreasoning dogma we have had so far from the little band of brexitextreemists on GN who will just keep their fingers in their ears. "

If we follow the time line of when ' insults' first start I think your OP ranks right up there.

How blatent does irony become before it hits home?

NfkDumpling
Re German car imports into the uk last year: 810,000. That's 1in7 produced in Germany. We are the 2nd largest importers after the the US. Not a figure to be sniffed at, is it?

Owen Paterson.

I heard that too, Gill. I did wonder what happens when the French go on strike,bad weather, etc. I did think the other MP (whoever he was) had a point that we could import from elsewhere and component part prices would be more competitive. Both had salient points, I thought.

And if he hadn’t over talked he wouldn’t have managed to get a word in! I’m getting fed up with interviewers going on and on and not letting the interviewee talk. There was one woman the other day who said “We haven’t got much time, but ......”. And wittered on for so long the interviewee hardly got a word in!

I have heard before about a part being made in the UK, transported to somewhere in Europe to have another bit added and then brought back. A lot of mileage and no one questioned why the whole thing couldn’t be made here. Or there.

I heard that interview too Gill and I was utterly appalled at the arrogant nonsense spouted by Owen Paterson MP, one of the swivel-eyed ultra brexiteers.

We should listen to experienced business people, trade unionists and academics, who actually do understand the risks. It is absurd that expertise is dismissed in favour of dogma.

Oh, and the man from JLR said that to have a warehouse big enough to hold a week's worth of components, instead of Just in Time deliveries, they would need a warehouse the size of which has never been seen.

Interesting report on JLR on Radio 4 this morning with explanations of the logistics and deliveries, how the lorry with the yellow wing mirrors arrives just after the lorry with the yellow door panels, a very carefully managed and controlled process. The Brexit supporting MP ( didn't catch his name) who came on just blustered, over talked, patronised, blah, blah, blah, over the interviewer, didn't answer any pertinent questions and of course just inferred that the people who run JLR don't know what they are talking about while he, an MP is the fount of all knowledge about motor trade logistics. I am truly starting to get frightened now, this is like living in a bad drama with fools and idiots pushing their agenda, irrespective of the truth.

I think it’s to do with the supply chain. They buy a lot of parts from EU. Of course the government and Brexiteers will say f* business and they shouldn’t speak out, but what are they supposed to do? Sit back whilst their businesses suffer? Still May is going to cobble together two unworkable proposals to make one big unworkable proposal which will be rejected by both sides, so at least she will have united the two sides against her. Great statesmanship.

Do they export most of their cars to the EU? I’m curious as the majority of new cars around here are German.

Britain’s biggest vehicle manufacturer, Jaguar Land Rover, has warned it may have to rethink billions of pounds of UK investment, while its 40,000 British employees would face an uncertain future, if the UK leaves the EU single market.
The company said it needed greater certainty to continue to invest heavily in the UK, in a statement released two days before Theresa May is due to meet ministers at Chequers to discuss the post-Brexit deal they will seek with Brussels.
“A bad Brexit deal would cost Jaguar Land Rover more than £1.2bn profit each year,” said the firm’s chief executive, Ralf Speth

I don’t think we have any trawlers or drifters around here anymore!

That's the EU parliament for you, Nfk, it has powers...

And, to be fair, a second article I read on the topic of pulse fishing seemed to be saying that the UK would ban it, too.

The dilemma seems to be, though, that conventional beam trawling of the sea bed is extremely destructive of the sea bed environment and pulse fishing is destructive of the marine life. So neither are particularly desirable.

Pleased to hear there’s been a vote to ban pulse fishing Maisie. Life has been rather busy this year and I must have missed it!

As for MaizieD's question "Then why did our fishermen sell their quotas to EU fishermen?" The answer to that lies with the fishermen.

Oh, very gnomic, ally.

So, having sold of a large part of their quota to fishermen from other EU states they then complained about them taking their fish...

I absolve them from voting for that useless idiot who was supposed to be on the EU Fisheries Committee (because they were too widely scattered over the UK) , where their point of view might just have been considered, but shooting themselves in the foot and then crying that it hurts wasn't very impressive.

paddyan, that's a point of view I have heard before, too.

according to a fisherman relative of mine based in the western isles ,if the EU hadn't taken control we would have run out of fish decades ago."British" fishermen were overfishing our waters with disatrous results.The EU was resonsible for the restocking and control of how much was taken.
Now I suppose some fishermen would object to the" control "but surely not the restocking of waters that were depeted ?

NfkDumpling, thanks for that information, it confirms that the Dutch are fishing just off our shores, I think the point of your post was to confirm this as well as the waste, through indiscriminate fishing practices. Whilst UK fishermen are being paid to lay up their boats.

As for MaizieD's question "Then why did our fishermen sell their quotas to EU fishermen?" The answer to that lies with the fishermen.

Sorry, forgot the link:

www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-bans-killing-fish-via-electrocution-that-wont-affect-uk-after-brexit-1655426

Being in the EU has let down our fishing industry massively

Then why did our fishermen sell their quotas to EU fishermen?

You're a bit behind the times, Nfk

European politicians have voted to ban fishermen from using electric currents to stun fish – a method known as pulse fishing.

The decision will most upset the Dutch, who have fitted around 80 trawlers with electro-charged nets that force fish near the bottom of the sea to float upwards.

The Dutch argue that the method is better for the environment than traditional trawling.

Dutch Agriculture Minister Carola Schouten said the EU parliament's decision to ban pulse fishing was "difficult to understand".

It seems like emotions and sentiments prevailed over independent research results and facts – that's very unfortunate," she added.

We will continue to defend the interests of Dutch pulse fishers in Europe and will fight this decision

There were loud cheers and applause in the Brussels chamber as the result of the vote was announced, according to the BBC.

The parliament will now enter into negotiations with the European Commission – which has previously acquiesced to the Dutch view about pulse fishing being better for the environment – and member states to agree new fishing regulations

Oh look, UK fishermen were thinking about doing it, too:.

The initial impact of the ban in the UK will be minimal as very few UK fleets use the method. But the result will be of interest to the national industry as fisherman have yet to decide whether to lobby the government for an expansion of pulse-fishing in post-Brexit UK waters.

The Dutch are now fishing within sight of our coast using electrocution nets which stun and kill every fish within range. Even if they’re small enough to go through the nets, they’re generally dead.

lemon grove the last post was a response to you. Sorry forgot to put your name on the post.

You are so right about the EU and the fishing industry, it has been so depleted, with boats being tied up and our fishermen being paid to stand down whilst other EEA country vessels are fishing two miles off shore. All sorts of bad practice.

As you say, I too hope it isn't too late to boost the industry that is left and even, who knows, revive the industry, post Brexit.

Petra most of the information I have been reading about post Brexit policy, is looking environmentally friendly and certainly addressing green issues. An interesting one is about pollinators particularly Bees, and how the farming industry, including the hill farms and forestry will be moving towards natural pest control to protect pollinators and particularly Honey Bees. Michael Gove seems to be speaking a lot about these issues, as is DEFRA, and the Forestry Commission. The transition after Brexit will be well funded.

Sorry wandered off, fishing and energy, but the point was the recognition of green, environmental issues across policies. I like that.