Likely consequenses of brexit

When caused by the U.K. Govt?
I don't understand.

A family from the Channel Islands lives in France for years, do not register as a tax payers (why) and come back to the UK for health treatment, then blames the UK Government when they want to obtain French citizenship - and have in fact left it until the last minute to do something about this when they have known about this for two years?

Have I missed something? Or not followed the rather involved story?

When caused by the U.K. Govt?

That ‘story’ is for the French government to sort out.

jura your melodramatic posts are the stuff of legend.
Do you really expect anyone who voted to leave the EU ( since we were given the choice by the government) to have had to factor into that choice, that there may be problems ahead for any UK citizen who had lived in France for the last 20 years!

The EU negotiators are tied by the four freedoms that are the basis of the European Union treaties and they cannot deviate from that in their talks with Britain in regards to the leaving terms. Therefore it is for the UK to negotiate a way through that or "crash out" of the European Union without even a customs agreement with all the consequences that will have for the British economy for many years to come.

In terms of negotiations I would not describe the above as a strong and resilient position from a British perspective

MarthaBeck
Particularly when their views are already mainly made up by dogma and prejudices or party loyalty?
How do you know that?
One can never know full facts of any such discussion and many facets of discussions should not (for security and expediency) be in the public domain. No negotiator worth his skin would put all of his/her cards on the table and yet this is what a number of unwise Brits appear to want to do. There would never be a concensus of approval if this was the case and UK would spiral into further torment.
At the end of the day, these are our elected representatives, by voting for them we have entrusted them to strive for a decent outcome (like them or not).
My only real concern is those elected politicians who even at this late stage would confound the will of the people, making us a political laughing stock and endangering the ability to negotiate from a strong and resilient position.

Indeed MarthaB.

petra, please let us be clear here- just so that there is NO mis-understanding. Are you actually calling me a liar? Your turn of phrase is a bit strange.

Some extremely interesting views. Without taking sides may I ask how can we trust our politicians to make the right decision.? Particularly when their views are already mainly made up by dogma and prejudices or party loyalty?
How do we the electorate accept any decision we do not believe is in the UK interest, if we do not participate in that decision making?

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YOU mentionned the 'heartless' bit- I would not have ever said this. Again, if you use words or ideas in your posts- they will be picked up and responded to.

Are you actually saying that I have made the story up? Really?

Being 'left out of it' is entirely your choice. Just do not comment - if you comment- you are part of the discussion, and will be responded to.

And again, that word 'bleating' is so offensive- as for the pearl clutching - meh where on earth?

The battle re Brexit is very much alive, and so is the kind of Brexit. Some of us will keep fighting, whether you agree or not.

Enough.
I entirely refute your accusation of heartlessness and have no idea why you have decided to pick on me (or lemongrove) in this instance.
1)I am not responsible for Brexit.
2) No amount of bleating or pearl clutching is going to make the slightest bit of difference
3) OK I am sorry for this lady - I cannot even say “your friend” as she seems to be just one other name from a website about which I know nothing and frankly care less
4) But there are people who are much worse off
5) I cannot shed crocodile tears about some possibly even hypothetical case so please leave me out of it.

I was not suggesting anything about the woman Jura quoted but if you do belong to any of the groups of Brits you will see people starting to panic as you need at least 5 years of tex returns to get any length of Carte and ten years is better. Those with only a couple of years get a much shorter length on the carte.
Paying French tax is the best proof as you pay into the French social security system - albeit a very small amount. Once you register for tax you are ‘fiscally resident’ in France. The paperwork you need to produce is massive really - utility bills, house taxes etc etc and proof of income and that it will be continuing.

Some have husbands/wives/children who are really sick- othershave lost their husband or wife. I would have thought you would understand how this, combined with the above- would make things really tough and difficult. It is bad enough without, no?

Mamie did explain before- British citizens in the EU, even those who spent their entire adult life there, did not apply for citizenship because there was just no need- at all. Being EU citizens was sufficient- and gave them all the rights and conditions they needed, so why should they have done? I did apply for British citizenship, because pre EU, and pre bilateral agreements - not being a UK citizen made life really difficult and complicated - in 1972.

Why is it not possible to understand the stress, difficulties and real fears of a third party who explains her situation clearly?

The good news is, that someone who is very knowledgeable read her post and was able to point out that there was a loophole, as her family had strong connections to UK and that should help solve some of the issues.

But do read her situation again - re proving financial independence and long wait for appointments re applying for naturalisation.

As said, this was just one illustration among 100s of 1000s in similar situations, worried sick about what will happen to them.

And yes, it is heartless not to care for your fellow citizens who are finding themselves in really difficult situations, and find their health, sleep, stress levels, really affected.

Jura would I be right in thinking this case is from one of your ex-pat websites?
It is very hard to express an opinion about a third party and I still do not understand why after 20: years in France she and her family have not sought citizenship unless of course being citizens of Jersey gave them additional tax advantages as I think Welshwife suggests.
It seems to me you have to at some point make a commitment and if circumstances change for the worse so be it.
You are going to call me heartless but I find it hard to get worked up about somebody of whom I know next to nothing when there are other much more serious issues.

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I wouldn’t dream of reporting a long cut and paste job jura but you now doing a long cut and paste is ironic.

So much more important, is the wish of Farage to return to stir up the al right, EDL and BF included, into civil unrest.

^Ex-Met terror chief: 'Extreme right infiltrating politics'

The Metropolitan Police's former head of counter terrorism, Mark Rowley, has warned that "aggressive intolerance" is finding its way into mainstream political debate.

Talking to BBC Newsnight he said it was important to ensure extremist groups could not "generate credibility and present themselves as representatives of white Britain or Muslim Britain."^
Nos THAT is seriously worrying.

MN Just wondering why they haven’t applied for French citizenship?

so you have not actually read her post, have you? Yes, in this case, it just had to be copied and pasted- sometimes it is the only way. And it is not a lengthy pages and pages of different bits from different sources. So I believe it is acceptable. GN will of course decide if you report it.

Rules are clear about applying for nationality - and in the past, it was just not necessary. Now to get a simple Carte de Séjour, and for nationality- the waiting list is many months in many areas of France- and that is entirely due to Brexit.

And yet, some of you will still not think about the plight of that poor woman - and prefer to continue to have a go at me instead. It is meh, really meh

I am a little
But were born in Jersey - so they are British citizens; however the Channel Islands have a special status as they belong to the group called the 'special territories' - many of which are French, Dutch as well as English.

The islands do not participate in the freedom of movement of labour, and as a result their citizens are not entitled to work or reside within the EU unless they are directly connected (through birth, or descent from a parent or grandparent) with the United Kingdom. After five years continuous residence in the United Kingdom, islanders are entitled to participate in the freedom of movement of labour or services throughout the EU

There may be many people from various British 'special territories' so the UK and EU will have to sort out their status - or, in this case, the country where they reside and wish to gain nationality will have to expedite their cases.

Cut and pasted Jura?
Did the ^ ^ not work ?

French Citizenship in some areas is long and drawn out and since the freedom of movement they have not issued a Carte de sejour or similar. Of course now they are inundated with applications with some areas more so than others. Some Prefectures are not even giving out appointments as a bit far into the future.
The French Govt have said that U.K. passport holders will be OK if they are in the system - ie registered to pay tax etc. This will catch out all the people who have lived in France for years but never registered for paying tax or the health service etc. Surprisingly many have lived in France for years but still go back to U.K. for NHS care - ridiculous really as better treatment in France and faster and much of it free even if you have no top up insurance.

So it is a French problem not a U.K. post-Brexit one.
Just wondering why they haven’t applied for French citizenship?
Several people I know are using Irish grandparents or great grandparents to get Irish passports and others I know working in Germany are applying for German citizenship.
As it happens, Hattie has an Irish EU Pet Passport!

France needs to decide on how they treat UK citizens that have lived there for a long time.The UK has already promised all EU workers living here that there will be no problems and that they can stay.
Bureaucracy in France works very slowly.