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Likely consequenses of brexit

(830 Posts)
varian Tue 03-Jul-18 20:40:02

If brexit happens, as I fear it probably will, the consequences, both intended and unintended, are likely to damage this country to an unprecedented extent.

As it is the most important political issue of our times, I believe we should continue to discuss it on GN, but we must be prepared for a continuence of the blind unreasoning dogma we have had so far from the little band of brexitextreemists on GN who will just keep their fingers in their ears.

Even so, I think it is important to continue to seek out the truth. We owe it to our children and grandchildren.

jura2 Thu 16-Aug-18 13:47:38

Apologies:

www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/politics/affect-of-a-no-deal-brexit-on-camden-and-barnet-1-5654439

jura2 Thu 16-Aug-18 12:53:55

www.hamhigh.co.uk/…/affect-of-a-no-deal-brexit-on-ca…

jura2 Thu 16-Aug-18 11:16:08

This is called 'taking back control'

eg having to obey Trump's USA to get some sort of deal:

Britain must side with the USA on Iran sanctions or face the prospect of a no trade deal with America.

Tying our nation to the unpredictable whims of Trumps ‘America First’ position puts Britain in a far worse position than remaining within the European Union.

Every time a world issue comes along there will be another threat or sanction for not doing the Presidents bidding.

Brexit will weaken our status on the world stage and leave us open to such abuse in the future - and not just from the United States, but any nation with which we trade from our weakened independent status and environment.

mostlyharmless Thu 16-Aug-18 10:17:48

Oh dear iamnot. This whole Brexit process is such a mess and only seven months to go!
Everyday we hear about new problems with Brexit.
Businesses can’t plan for next year and can’t bid for contracts because they don’t know what is going to happen.
Crazy situation.

Iamnotarobot Thu 16-Aug-18 09:05:02

We know that DexEU is being a little disengenuous as there are a number of areas which have not been “cut and pasted”. Most worryingly for many is the fact that recourse to law is being severely limited in a number of areas, and example of this concern is outlined below by the All party Audit Committee.
Report by the Parliamentary Audit Committee over concerns relating to the fact that ONE THIRD of EU Environmental legislation on air, waste, water, chemicals, have not been cut and pasted into U.K. Law through the EU (Withdrawal) Act.

As a result the U.K. has not

* put into law environmental principles that the U.K. has signed up to in International Law - embodied in a EU Treaty
*commitment to the Paris Climate Change confirmation
* establish principles in U.K. Law that policy and public bodies will seek to ensure a high level of environmental protection and a presumption that EP will not be reduced.
*Establish long term legally binding targets supported by a 5 year plan using the Climate Change Act 2008 as its model
* ensure the plans ambition is properly reflected in other areas of government law and beyond DEFRAs remit.
*create in U.K. law an independent oversight body Environment Enforcement Audit Office
*set out the EEAOs roles
*This body should have a regulatory function complementary to the Environment Agency
*eatablish a body of parliamentarians modelled on public accounts committee to scrutinise the EEAOs budget, performance etc.
* provide a robust statutory basis for natural capital and environment net gains .

Funding
The committee reports that

There are three main areas of funding and the only dependable, largest and consistent source has benn from the EU.
At present the U.K. governments projected funding is set to continue to decline.

This represents a tiny example of EU legislation , funding and monitoring that has NOT been cut and pasted into U.K. law.

Allygran1 Thu 16-Aug-18 00:44:03

Secured in the Withdrawal Bill:

For employers
The UK has a long-standing record of ensuring that employment and equality rights are protected. The Bill will ensure that workers’ rights which derive from EU law will continue to be available in UK law.
This ensures that rights such as those in the Working Time Directive and the Equality Act 2010 will continue to apply after exit. This will give certainty and continuity to employees and employers alike, creating stability in which the UK can grow and thrive.
The Prime Minister has been clear that securing the future status of EUnationals currently living in the UK and UK nationals living in the EU is a priority for agreement during negotiations, including how UK business will be able to employ EU nationals after exit.
The Government has already set out a fair and serious offer outlining how we intend to protect the rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK nationals in the EU.
For more information, please see our factsheet on Workers’ Rights and Equalities.
Consumer protection
As a result of the Bill, UK consumer protections that are based on EU law will be preserved wherever practical, using the preservation powers in the Bill. This means that, when buying from traders in the UK, you will be able to rely on the same rights you have now after we leave the EU.
Where rights derived from EU legislation have been clarified by the CJEU, the effect of those judgments will be preserved and they will be treated as equivalent to precedent established by the UK Supreme Court. This stability will give businesses and consumers clarity and confidence in their domestic rights and obligations. For more information, please read our Consumer Protection factsheet.
The environment
We remain committed to safeguarding and protecting the UK’s long history of environmental protection. The Bill will incorporate existing EU environmental law into UK law and, as such, is intended to give certainty and continuity to business and organisations. We will also uphold our obligations under international environmental treaties.
Any future changes to our legislation will be subject to the usual parliamentary scrutiny. We will work closely with communities, environmental organisations and other stakeholders to help build our future plans for environmental protection.
This will make sure we can continue create a healthy environment and strong economy. For more information, see our Environmental Protections factsheet.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Allygran1 Thu 16-Aug-18 00:25:57

The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill
The Bill will repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and convert EU law (as it applies in the UK) into domestic law on the day we leave the EU. This means that, as far as possible, the same rules and laws will apply immediately before and immediately after our exit, ensuring a smooth transition.

The Bill will establish a stable legal framework for our withdrawal from the EU, and provide the basis for our future relationship with the EU. It will not make substantive changes to policy or establish new legal frameworks in the UK, beyond those which are necessary to ensure the law functions properly.

Despite the Bill’s conversion of EU law into UK law, many areas of law will not function effectively once we leave the EU, because, for example, they refer to EU institutions that would no longer be relevant in UK law. The Bill will therefore give the Government a power to correct the law in these circumstances.

These corrections will be made by statutory instruments made under the powers in the Bill. The power can only correct deficiencies that come out of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU: the Government cannot change existing laws merely because it disliked them before exit. Changes will need to pass through the appropriate parliamentary scrutiny.

To maximise certainty, the Bill will ensure that any question as to the meaning of EU-derived law will be determined in the UK courts, by reference to the Court of Justice of the European Union’s (CJEU) case law as it exists on the day we leave the EU. The Bill will provide that historic CJEU case law be given the same binding, or precedent, status in our courts as decisions of our own Supreme Court or (in relation to criminal cases in Scotland) the High Court of Justiciary. It is very rare for the Supreme Court to depart from one of its own decisions and we would expect the Supreme Court to only rarely depart from CJEU case law.

The Bill delivers on our promise to end the supremacy of EU law in the UK. It is the only way for the UK to leave the EU while taking back control – so that our future laws will be made in London, Edinburgh, Belfast, and Cardiff. For more information, please see our Bill factsheets.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Allygran1 Thu 16-Aug-18 00:03:12

Legislation
Our EU membership means that EU law currently applies in the UK. To ensure a smooth transition and provide certainty, wherever practical and appropriate, we are going to turn existing EU law into UK law. After this, our Parliament can change, repeal, and improve any law it chooses. All Government departments are currently reviewing the EU laws that apply in their areas and how our withdrawal from the EU will affect how these laws work.

Department for Exiting the European Union

jura2 Wed 15-Aug-18 19:20:47

Non - a vie est trop courte MB.

MawBroon Wed 15-Aug-18 12:26:51

Neither side can be regarded as “squeaky clean”

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/david-cameron/news/91572/official-eu-remain-campaign

Anniebach Wed 15-Aug-18 12:18:42

Brexit was not allowed to be discussed at last years Labour Party conference. Despite many constituencies asking it be discuss this year , no word from HQ, Corbyn is even against calls for a second referendum

MawBroon Wed 15-Aug-18 11:08:35

Jura2 est de retour!

jura2 Wed 15-Aug-18 11:03:22

Allygran, do you mean the Laws which were clearly proven to have been broken during the Referendum, by the Leave side?

Or just the ones that you like and suit your purpose?

mcem Wed 15-Aug-18 10:56:09

nellie that's very fair comment most of the time but hardly applies when a poster insists that she is very well-qualified, highly educated and is critical of how others present their arguments.

Bridgeit Tue 14-Aug-18 10:07:38

And this one.

varian Tue 14-Aug-18 10:07:30

Making assumptions about other posters is never a good idea. I am not a politician and have no ambition to become one. There is no need for a new party to represent my views. I am a Liberal Democrat.

However if a brextreemist finds UKIP is not far enough to the right, they could perhaps start another one, as the Moggites may well do.

nigglynellie Tue 14-Aug-18 09:39:19

Criticising other peoples grammar spelling, punctuation etc is considered to be bad manners on here MaisieD! As Grandad pointed out some people aren't as literate as others for varying reasons. Perhaps you are unaware of this!

nigglynellie Tue 14-Aug-18 09:33:13

Let's face it, had the result been the other way round all the remainers on here would be perfectly happy with the slimness of the majority. 'Project Fear', despite being totally untrue, would be considered perfectly proper, (end justified the means!!) and any protests about the above be scornfully pushed to one side. How strange is that?!!!! Both the main parties canvassed in the G.E on brexit , the main party opposed to brexit (the libdems) did extremely badly - shouldn't that be telling us something!!!

MaizieD Tue 14-Aug-18 08:54:02

I wish you'd learn to use aspostrophes properly, Ally

Allygran1 Mon 13-Aug-18 23:37:20

You think so highly of David Davis that you think his quotes are impressive. My view is Democracy is laid down and upheld in Law. Those Law's are indivisible from protecting our Democracy from those who would overturn it.

You want change Varian. Start a new Party and stand for election at the next General Election. People will vote for your policy mandate or they won't. That is Democracy Varian, at least it is in the UK.

Allygran1 Mon 13-Aug-18 23:31:46

MaizieD. There will in fact be no EU regulations on Brexit be that with or without a transition period. Already all of our laws are in preparation and being amended into Statute for March 2019, that will include all reclaimed Laws. Regulations and standards will be pretty much as they are now. Most regulations especially in Health and Safety, and workers rights, are embedded in our Law. In fact we contributed to the standards that the EU now use. We have had employment law and Health and Safety in the Work place regs for over a century evolving with time and changes in Industry.

Manchester was the Worlds first industrialised City, and our Laws reflected that. Read the information it is all out there just read it! Talk about the EU intransigence...they aren't the only ones!

varian Mon 13-Aug-18 23:16:11

Was it not David Davis who said "a democracy that cannot change its mind is not a democracy"?

MaizieD Mon 13-Aug-18 00:03:16

There are plenty of Labour strongholds that voted Leave btw

But they're changing their minds. Did you not read the article? 100+ Leave voting constituencies would now vote Remain.

MaizieD Mon 13-Aug-18 00:01:25

Why would workers lose their rights because we are leaving the EU

Because leading Leavers have said that we will have less regulation. What did you think that meant?

lemongrove Sun 12-Aug-18 22:42:45

Why is the LP ‘crucial’ in deciding the future of our country,
The Conservatives are just as crucial in that role.Whoever is in power de facto is crucial.