Given up on Brexit

agreed jane. But when she did, she accepted she had made a mistake, and did the right thing to do.

Unlike BoJo and many others recently.

Yes jura we know all that.
And if we had had proportional representation in 2015 we would have had a sizeable number of UKIP MPs and other assorted weirdos.

yes, I see that. I wrote a letter to Charles Kennedy a few years back, and he sent me a really intelligent reply about democracy, several pages long, and why he still believed proportional rep (with a minimum % to stop a myriad of small and weird parties) was still the right way to go.

And yet - about Brexit, Brexiters want to totally ignore that
a) the PM had no right whatsoever to promise that a Referendum in UK would be binding, as he was working in a Parliamentary Democracy, and it is against our own rules...
so asking to get back control on our own democracy.... by going totally against it - and say 'direct democracy' rules, and whatever the majority gap !?!

Can't have both - can't won't to get our Sovereignty back by going directly against.

So true Jura

sorry: can't want ...

She should have had the sense to realise that an image is open to many different interpretations, and that there was an inherent danger that it would be misinterpreted.

That's still absolutely no justification for saying that she has hatred for White van men and the England flag.

And if we had had proportional representation in 2015 we would have had a sizeable number of UKIP MPs and other assorted weirdos.
People do tend to forget that janea

And if you live in a leafy suburb or traditional rural Britain, as I did, voting anything else than Conservative, your vote goes straight into the bin
I did live in a leafy suburb and the MP was and is a Liberal Democrat.
As were many parts of Cornwall and the West.

I should add that I live in a fairly rural, traditional part of Britain and we used to have a Labour MP, now Conservative - and a fairly working class area of a city I lived in always returned a Conservative MP.

Some places do buck the trend because of the candidate.

Pot taken Jalima- yes South West and Liberals and lib Dems. Very rare in the Midands. Harborough will probably never ever be anything but Conservative, for ever and ever.

you do know that Russia lost more people fighting the Nazi's than ANY other nation or group.25 MILLION is a conservative estimate .I always feel very irritated that some on here dont remember the scrifices the Russian people made for not just their freedom but ours too.But dont let facts get in the way of the anti Russian mania thats filling the press these days .

Point not pot ..(mind you it's tempting in the circumstances...)

paddyann I remember the sacrifices made by British sailors trying to get aid through to Russia on the Arctic convoys. My DF was on one of the escort ships.

However, since that time there has been a lot of history including a Cold War.

Pamela J1
Well said
I had thought it was the job of government to brief the civil service to offer possible outcomes for all eventualities. Cameron was so sure that he knew what my vote would be.... and that of millions of others in wishing to leave a highly undemocratic organisation.. that no preparation at all was made for anything other than staying in and taking on board more regulation and control from the unelected top.
I find it most strange that the remainers refuse to acknowledge the undemocratic nature of the whole system. This has become more abundantly clear as the 'negociations' have continued. We have not been listened to at all

The whole trouble has been caused because people were not fully informed before the referendum. A lot of my acquaintances who voted to leave now say they have changed their minds.

Fennel so predictable.

123coco
I stand by my remarks. We managed before being 'taken' into the EU, like an arranged marriage by the government of the time.
Your opinion is right for you as is mine for me.
We lived and traded before the links of steel were forged. Would we have been happy then, to know that if we wanted a divorce, it would bring our government to breaking point and insults traded between remainers and leavers on every platform available?
I think not.
If eligible voters couldn't be rsd to get out and put a cross on a bit of paper by their preferred candidate, then why moan when the outcome is not to their liking?
I went shopping today. M&S - food and clothes, Primark - clothes and homeware, Ikea - furniture, rugs and incidentals.
The items that were made/produced here were the bread, scallions and strawberries and cream. Other foods were imported from Italy and Spain.
M&S underwear, bag and homewear made in Portugal, Sri Lanka and Poland. Primark items were all made in China, India and Bangladesh. Ikea - Sweden.
None of those countries would stop trading with us after we leave the EU.

Varian what else would we expect from you.

I make decisions on what I want, not what I think my GGC will want in the future. It's a bit like bringing your children up in a religion which YOU, as the parent, think THEY should have.
My GC and GGC do and will make their own decisions. I am not making choices based on what I think they should 'inherit' as far as trade and relations with the rest of the world are concerned. At 73, I'm far from being in my grave and my opinion as to the workings of the country I live in and love is what matters to me. My AC and GC put their own marks on the paper as will my GGC when their time comes.

Jura2

My parents and we 3 children lived on a council estate in Liverpool. They voted Conservative and the same member was returned 37 YEARS in succession.
What, in your opinion, does that say about council estates and binned Conservative votes?

I am very proud to be a leaver and I know exactly what I was voting for. I have been a Conservative all my voting life but the chaos we find ourselves in now is absurd. The PM has done what she has always wanted to do and now has a cabinet made up of remoaners. I applaud Davis and Johnson for their integrity in resigning, I am hoping the PM will lose a vote of no confidence and that Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes our new PM. A general election that sees Corbyn in power is something I would rather not contemplate.

Maddy I am very proud to be a leaver and I know exactly what I was voting for.

And what was that?

I don't think anyone actually knew what they were voting for - hard facts were very thin on the ground for both sides of the argument. I tend to ignore propaganda anyway - and that's all that was produced at the time. So ironic that places like Wales voted leave - do they not understand about the hugely generous funding they presently get from the EU? A disaster is unfolding, in my opinion, and there will be absolute chaos. I worry about the impact on jobs, particularly. Also you know when the government are beginning to stockpile food supplies, they are anticipating difficulties at the ports. Cameron and the Conservatives have a lot to answer for. I feel very sorry for people who voted leave who now have changed their minds. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!

It could actually be a lot worse than that ... as influence and finance from Russia is becoming clear- the question is WHY?

See the other thread for the very possible answer - if THAT does not scare you and make you re-think beyond spam, cheap flights and blue passports - nothing will.

Surely in this time of unrest across the world,,, 'in it all together' seems a good turn of phase. The EU are our allies, other countries seen to dislike us with a vengeance (US).
Cameron should be held to account for what he has done,,, the pure facts should have been available to all in this country... The ones who voted OUT will not be around to see the consequences,,,, but OUR YOUNG will.