Labour gone mad

Anniebach I believe that JC that as accepted that his should have understood the significance of the paintings before making any comment. If he had appreciated the significance I don't think he would have made the comments. It was bad not to be better aware. I do not excuse that. Still does not make him anti-semetic.

The Jewish Leaders Council , the Board of Deputies of British Jews are all Blairites ? No idea but they are not going to support anyone who opposes the current Israeli governments policies for reduction of Palestinian territories and will look to oppose those who do.

Perhaps there was a better way of explaining PECS than calling the beliefs of people of faith cranky views

"The fact that JC supports human rights for Palestinians and opposes the aggression of Netanyahu's right wing government towards Palestine does not make him anti-semetic. "
I agree.
This is what makes the whole subject so complex.

Nobody has to accept anyone's cranky views!

So Corbyn admiring the anti Semitic wall painting was false news

. The Jewish Leaders Council , the Board of Deputies of British Jews are all Blairites ?

Fennel I do not understand what you are saying. Perhaps my post was not clear.

What I was trying to explain is that

e.g If you allow religious group A freedom to teach that people with curly hair are less valuable than those with straight hair and so must not sit next to curly haired children you then must also allow religious group B the freedom to say people over 5' 6" are superior to shorter people and so receive 15% less in wages.
It is all about who is better /more blessed etc in God's eyes!
In this country we , allegedly, believe we should not discriminate against anyone based on race/ religion /gender etc. Unfortunately exteremists in all religions do not agree with this. Does the law of the land take precedent over religion or vice versa? It is a conundrum!

Oh re the Labour Party: I understand there was never disagreement on the core statement of the Holocaust Remembrance document. They were discussing the guidance notes and wanted to make them absolutely clear.

Rather than using rational argument to oppose the leadership of JC the Blairites are using the type of smear campaigns we all despise and sowing seeds of doubt based on thin air. JC has a clear record of fighting racism in all its forms, including anti-Semitism. The fact that JC supports human rights for Palestinians and opposes the aggression of Netanyahu's right wing government towards Palestine does not make him anti-semetic. We all have the right to oppose political decisions/policies. I am sure that there have been/are some anti-semetic members in the Labour party and that will be similar to any other political party in UK. There are some right wing / conservative factions of the Jewish community for whom any criticism of Israel, or simply a Pro Palestinian stance, equates to anti-Semitism. Very many Jewish people do not think like this.

We Christians have to accept the cranky views of some atheists

"Can't pick and choose which religions can promote their cranky views .. it's all or none!"
No - this country has been known for it's tolerance and acceptance of other races and religions for many years.
Apart from that, what Ofsted are threatening is illegal. Not just under the Equalities Act, but from other legislation which gives parents rights to decide on what is taught to their children.

We are a secular society and so our National Curriculum is just that...not an option for any religious group to decide what they cherry pick to teach in schools. Any religious group is free to teach its own nonsense in their places of worship...but trouble with that is I bet few Gransnetters would support any extremist views. I know that Jewish/Muslim/Christian fundamentalists preach separatism and negative attitudes to gender and sexual orientation. Can't pick and choose which religions can promote their cranky views .. it's all or none!

There's more to this than meets the eye.
We're now back living in an Orthodox Jewish community and all those we've spoken to are fearful of Labour, and especially Corbyn, being elected over the conservatives.
The main issue though is education. The current Ofsted mindset is that schools should teach 'British values' which include such things as acceptance of gender variation and all it implies. If these things aren't taught, and excepted, the schools could face closure.
To me this is denial of freedom to follow the principles of our religion. Which is against the Equalities Act 2010.
Even though this comes from a conservative govt. the fear is that Labour would reinforce it.
It could be that this was originally aimed at Muslims, but Jews are being affected too. Also probably Catholics and some C of E schools.

will they push Margaret out or will that be a step too far for the majority of the MP’s and cause a split , she is much respected in the party , been a Labour MP for 24 years and is Dame Margaret Hodge

The Palestine issue is important of course. Many Jewish people in Israel and in other countries are as critical of the actions of the Israeli government as the pro Palestinian protesters.
My worry is that criticism of the actions of the Israeli government is becoming conflated with anti semitic views of the state of Israel and of Jewish people all over the world.
I struggle to accept that re-defining the definition of anti semitism to exclude issues accepted world wide, is the most important thing happening in the LP currently. Yesterday we had coverage of Trump/Putin, Brexit Brexit Brexit but the focus of the LP was its re-writing of the definition.
the article by Margaret Hodge in the guardian is worth reading.

After "criticising the Israeli govt. because of assumed qualities of their race" I should have added " and their treatment of the Palestinians."

I think it's sad that a more comprehensive definition has to be enforced. From a brief reading the main points are criticising individual Jews, because of assumed qualities of their race. Denying the Holocaust. Criticising the Israeli govt. because of assumed qualities of their race.
But it seems that only by using these rules, in their broadest interpretation, consistently, can antisemitism be controlled. And that's why all those rabbis are so insistent.
As for the Labour Party, and Corbyn's sympathy for the Palestinians, many people feel the same way, including many Israeli Jews.

Have you actually read the Code of Conduct for Antisemitism? Labour has not gone mad and the NEC is NOT deciding on a "new definition" - they have accepted the IHRA definition of anti semitism. This article may help your understanding.

"As definitions go, this one (IHRA working definition) is, to say the least, somewhat vague. Accordingly, the drafters of the IHRA text provide “examples” which, they say, “may serve as illustrations” to “guide” IHRA in its work. Similarly, the NEC Code includes “guidelines” to assist Labour in its work, including a set of seven “examples”. Here is where there is a degree of variation from the IHRA text; and this is where the confusion arises. For, when critics say that the NEC has not adopted the IHRA definition (“in full”), they allude to these variations.

They thus confuse the definition and the examples that are meant as illustrations only. The examples are precisely not intended to be definitive. The definition itself might be vague, but nothing could be clearer than this distinction – between the definition proper and ancillary examples – in the body of the IHRA text".

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brian-klug/code-of-conduct-for-antisemitism-tale-of-two-texts

According to party rules behaviour has to be respectful between colleagues.

Was John Macdonald calling fellow labour MP’s f*****g losers respectful ?

pollyperkins I agree, I was always confused about why saying that was antisemitism; according to the BBC, he said "When Hitler won his election in 1932 his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews."

The guns are out for Margaret Hodge , if they get her out will it cause the breakup of the party?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/18/labour-party-to-take-action-against-mp-who-called-corbyn-a-racist

Yes, probably!

.polly, he was suspended from the party, perhaps this is what you were thinking of

I see Im.showing my ignorance (of KL, not Hitler!) So will bow out gracefully!

polly, he wasn’t sacked, he didn’t hold any position, he made the decision to leave the party

Exactly polly it was only because it was a good way to get rid of them (by Hitler) nobody can say that he supported Zionism, that makes a mockery of it.

I think that was it sadly Lemongrove, yes. So KL stated a fact but I'm not really sure how he used it so I'd better shut up. But it just annoys me when people say he was sacked for stating a true fact! I assume there was more to it.