so, when will you be starting stockpiling I wonder?

As Lemon so rightly said 4 days ago:

'It was a joke jura.....just as this whole thread is one big joke.'

although I must say I sometimes nearly get it wrong, as you have changed names so many times, it is hard to keep up. You can call me Grandjura or Juragran- I don't mind.

Thank you Doodle I had suspected there was a hidden insult in it, a conflation of “Malware” and my name perhaps, but such things can only be treated with the contempt they deserve.

grandad it is not the first time on this thread that you have put malbroon instead of mawbroon. I fail to understand how you can make a slip of the keyboard when you say you dictate your posts. I accept that once can be a mistake which is why I didn't mention it the first time but twice, the same error? Getting people's names right is just common decency whatever forum you are on. Abbreviations of long names are acceptable but on GN if we make mistakes with people's names we usually apologise.

May I just refer you to Doodle’s comment about spelling. I think it says all that needs to be said.
Perhaps though you would do well to reconsider your opinion that you do
not think it important on a leisure forum
How you behave on your “Sports forums” is of course your own business.

MawBroon I think it is common decency not to publicly comment on a minute mistake such as Briton and Britain in an attempt to "show someone up". I think that is disrespectful and slipshod don't you.

If you had not carried out that, my mistake towards you would not have occurred.

Think on it.

Sadly Groandad doesn’t see it that way

I agree Maw.
Grandpap should know better.

I think it a matter of common decency to get a person’s name right and slipshod and disrespectful to not be bothered

Slip off the keyboard thats is all doodle. Have not felt it was that important on a leisure forum. Certainly is not on sports forums I visit why here. :-(

maggiemaybe- I think few, Brexiters or Remainers- who will not agree that the lies to win the vote were huge, that the Leave Campaign cheated, that outside interferences played a big part, and that the demographics have changed significantly in the meantime.- and this even more so in view of the tiny majority.

No-one is asking for a second referendum- but a vote on the Final Deal, or No Deal- in Parliament at least, as a free vote- and as a public vote. It would be totally fair and democratic Rees-Mogg and his cronies are rushing into a No Deal- to avert this.

If sometimes sarcasm creeps in, I apologise unreservedly- and agree it is not helpful. Frustration and desperation in the face of disaster does have that effect, unfortunately.

Why do you insist on calling mawbroon malbroon grandad. I understand you are dyslexic (or mildly as you put it) but so am I. It does not prevent me from checking what I type or looking up words that I am not sure about.

?

For this once MalBroon I will disregard your above post. However if you really wish to start us Slagging one another off I am only too willing.

Ridiculous.

Any particular Briton, Grandad or all of Britain?

I believe in all the gloom (especially today in regard to a State of Emergency being declared) there has been also much positive news.

The media reports of Vince Cable being at a dinner in London when he missed that vital vote with many others who are still as yet unknown points to perhaps much important cross-party talking going on in the background.

As John Major said this morning, parliament is being controlled by around forty hard line Brexitiers who have backed Theresa May into a corner. As he then stated, whichever side of the Brexit debate anyone is on, that parliamentary situation cannot be good for our democracy.

I believe we will not see the formation of a new political party, but it may well be that on the return of Parliament in September an alliance of similar thinking moderate MPs of all parties may be able to counteract the control of the Hard line Brexitiers.

To me it would seem that it is absolutely essential for Briton to remain in a customs union with the EU on Brexit. If that can be achieved then the problems surrounding all other aspects of leaving can be resolved.

However you still do not say how you or anybody would achieve that.
It is easy to observe from a distance and say this or that should be done and rail against what you may see as inactivity.
But agitating on forums such as GransNet or your expat forums is frankly pi**ing in the wind.
And to those who think this is appropriate, mocking or making personal comments or talking about “braindead Brexiteers” ,”unintelligent Brexitiers(“ (sic) or calling them ”Brexshitters” only brings shame to those responsible.

But what happens then? Say a free vote in Parliament happens and whatever deal we have is rejected, what then? We can’t just ignore the fact that the majority of those who bothered to turn out voted leave. Surely democracy demands that we respect that result? And I speak as one who would love to wake up tomorrow and find it’s all been a bad dream....

How do you propose to arrange that?

Kitty, a vote on the final deal - a free vote in Parliament, if not a public vote. Simple.

Your are right that there might not be a Referendum on the Final Deal, and this because they know they are likely to lose by a significant majority, not a mere couple of %.

But we have to continue to try- here, and everywhere.
Some do not want to get involved here for fear of having their head bitten off, and personal attacks or derision. They will however be very happy to go and vote. In view of all that we know now about how so many people were poorly informed, and often fraudulently and deliberately mis informed - democracy demands that people be given a choice on the final deal.

I keep asking - what can be done now?

What so you expect to happen - what can remainers do to stop it!

I appreciate that your efforts to reverse the referendum decision are genuine but, much as I may, or may not, agree with your sentiments, I fear you're on a hiding to nothing here. Gransnet is perhaps not best place to be getting your voice heard, especially if, as you say, those that actually do support you and agree with you "don't want to get involved". That doesn't sound like much of a majority making its voice heard, does it?

I think you've perhaps got off on the wrong foot in some of your earlier comments too and that possibly alienated some posters. Many/most of the posters on GN made their decision to want to leave the EU for just as valid reasons as you voted to stay in it. I honestly don't think you're going to make any headway, at this stage in the proceedings, in getting a second referendum or in getting anyone here to change their minds about their decision.

As for the personal attacks: you've made a few yourself.

. Brexit has reached a turning point- and I feel it is paramount that we fight for a Referendum on the final deal
And how do you purpose doing that?

There was a referendum, granted mismanaged, but there will not be a second one and frankly, given that we in the U.K. are as fed up with Barnier’s intransigence, as with the shambolic attempt at negotiations, I suspect the majority for Leave could be even greater. The greatest danger to the U.K. now is a move by Rees-Mogg, Gove or Johnson on the Conservative leadership.
So is whingeing going to achieve anything?
If you feel you are banging your head against a brick wall, feel free to stop. To give it a rest. It can too easily become counterproductive.
Dont bleat about personal attacks- those work both ways as I am acutely aware, and if you must initiate discussion, let it be just that.

You are right, it often feels like banging your head, very hard, on the wall... many send PMs to say they are appalled at the personal attacks I get, and how they agree but don't want to get involved.

And the reason why I left GN for quite a long time. Neither to comfort myself, not to create anxiety- I can assure you. Brexit has reached a turning point- and I feel it is paramount that we fight for a Referendum on the final deal- and that to do so, we need to be aware of all the facts.

There is still a chance we can avert this disaster. One has to keep hope and fight for it. It seems that polls (and I know they are not always reliable) indicate that there is now a clear majority to remain in EU- but whatever happens- huge damage has been done, to the UK, and to the EU.
That is my motivation- no more, no less - to avert this disaster in the making.

Jura can I ask if you feel that you've changed anyone's mind about Brexit yet? Do you feel that your constant stream of dire warnings and forebodings of impending disaster have had any impacton any GNetter at all? Do you continue to post warnings of doom and penury to comfort yourself or to create anxiety in others? What is your motive? And do you feel you've achieved anything so far? I'm genuinely interested.