Sajid Javid tells US: We won't block death penalty for Isil 'Beatles'

The death penalty is still murder, it is State Sactioned murder and should be beneath any society that purports to be civilised.

Shame they haven't caught and tried the person who caused half a million deaths in Iraq by pretending there were weapons of mass destruction there!

Even so, I wouldn't want him hanged for many of the reasons stated already. The death penalty models the behaviour you are seeking to prevent.

Also, even if you could be one hundred percent sure they are guilty (US proved innocent rate currently about 4%), consider who else you are punishing. Their families (children maybe) will have to come to terms with losing a loved one. Some executioners, jurors, wardens, chaplains, and judges will suffer PTSD of some sort or another with varying degrees of severity.

It is not true, though, that the majority of UK people support the death penalty; the figure is nearer 35-45% and this support has been falling steadily since abolition (when over 70% were in favour). What is true is that over half of Tory party members (54 per cent) support the death penalty (SNP 23 per cent, Labour 9 per cent, Lib Dem 8 per cent)

I see Julian Assange is in the news again. The US Attorney-General is still seeking his arrest and, according to the report I read, the Ecuadorean President wants him removed from the embassy in London.

Assange sought asylum in the Ecuadorean Embassy because he feared the death sentence should he be extradited to the US to face charges about his Wikileaks activities.

Does this mean that the UK government would not seek a guarantee that Assange would not, potentially, be subject to the death penalty in the US? If it does mean that, the precedent that has been mentioned up thread was set then and not recently concerning the two "Beatles" gang members.

how is it known to be true 9% of Labour Party members support the death penalty , 54% of the Tory party support the death penalty?

Survey published 4 January 2018 in Grassroots, Britain's Party Members [PDF 1,755KB], published by the Mile End Institute at Queen Mary University of London. The publication is based on a survey of Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, and SNP party members following the June 2017 election.

Detailed on: www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/2017/hss/survey-of-britains-party-members-reveals-glaring-contrasts-between-tories-and-other-parties.html

I think Julian Assange was fearing extradition to Sweden where he faced rape charges.

Thank you Pauline, I didn’t take part in that survey, they are the same as polls, x number are asked not every member of every party.

Yes, he was, ctipps, but those charges have been dropped. The US 'interest' in him because of Wikileaks continues.

To return to the death penalty: of course polls are polls, and we know they aren't always accurate. But it would have probably be impractical/impossible to poll every member of the parties.

I read somewhere here that the majority of people in the country support the death penalty and I wanted to see if there was statistical support for this view. Then I saw the bit about the political parties and thought that was interesting too.

I agree Pauline but you did say ‘what is true ‘ I wasn’t being picky with you but we had countless posts stating Tory party mrmbers were over 70, this was not so.

It is interesting that so many in the Tory party support the return of the death penalty and surely there is a link between the decision not to block the death penalty in this case.

Could these claims the majority of Tory party members want the return of the death penalty be dismissed as false news

No it's simply discussing the results of a survey and considering if that has any influence on a government decision.
Fake News There are two kinds of fake news:

False stories that are deliberately published or sent around, in order to make people believe something untrue or to get lots of people to visit a website. These are deliberate lies that are put online, even though the person writing them knows that they are made up.
Stories that may have some truth to them, but they're not completely accurate. This is because the people writing them - for example, journalists or bloggers - don't check all of the facts before publishing the story, or they might exaggerate some of it.
From the BBC website-neither of which applies here

^

But not every member of the parties were asked trisher so it cannot be said to be accurate . How many from each party were asked?

You can ask any questions you like Annie that's why it's not "Fake News" just a discussion. If you are so interested I suggest you visit the website and look at the details.

Over 4117 members of the parties were asked, was this 4117 from each party of all parties . Labour has 552,000 members , if 4117 from the Labour Party were asked a hell of a lot were not asked

If you want a discussion about surveys Annie why not start a thread?

I didn’t post the percentage of party members who supported the death penalty trisher, my posts are in reply to claims made on this thread and you continued with the claims .

2016 the SNP had 120,000 members ,

I don't think the majority of people in this country want the return of capital punishment, Tory or otherwise. I do perceive a lot of people don't give a damn about the fate of couple of terrorists who showed extreme barbarity in callously murdering innocent victims by taking off their heads with a serrated knife.

Perhaps that is true TerriBull but the mother of one of the murdered journalists has said she wouldn't want to see the death penalty because she believes it will make them martyrs, perhaps she should be listened to, she has after all suffered more than the indignant people who don't give a damn.

I agree to a certain extent with the mother of murdered journalist, James Foley, but at least she will know if they receive a custodial sentence she can take comfort in the fact that in America they will serve a life sentence without reprieve. On the other hand some might well sympathise with the daughter of David Haines, who was also beheaded like James Foley by Islamic State, she would like the opportunity to take the life of her father's murderers. Two different but equally understandable reactions. Yes it doesn't really matter what the rest of us think only the victims loved ones Nevertheless as far as those not involved are concerned some will give a damn about the fate of these loathsome characters and some won't.

And if the mother of a victim wants the murderer sentenced to death should we listen to her ?

Yes we should listen but it works two ways does it not ?

Of course but the fact that the law stands as it does and that usual procedure has been for the British government to object to the death penalty is, of course, what should take priority. And as I have already said abandoning that principal because some feel it is inappropriate in this case makes it much more difficult to insist that the rule should always apply, which could lead to death sentences being enacted for others who might be seen as less deserving.

I agree trisher , we are against the death penalty therefore this should apply to all.

Off topic but I didn’t support the fight to drop charges against the soldier who shot dead an injured taliban fighter , the charges were dropped so end of.

Anniebach

The quote is made in Exodus, Leviticus and Matthew. 2 OT and one NT. If following Matthew's version, I can see your point, but the other two seem to be along the lines that I agree with. I feel that the 'death penalty' will always be controversial and there will be some, such as me, who think it should be brought back and others who think that those that murder others should not be punished in that way, but spend life in prison, which in the UK is 14/15 years, which, with remission, means about 10 years, not much of a punishment for the taking of a life. Perhaps if life actually meant life and with hard labour, we might be getting nearer to an appropriate punishment. This will never happen as there are too many do-gooders out there that would not allow this. I think we will beg to differ on this subject and have now exhausted any purposeful discussion. I have enjoyed reading your posts and respect your views and look forward to viewing more on a different subject.