Labour Party and anti semitism

Bravo Iam.

No one that I'm aware of is suggesting that criticising the treatment of the Palestinians by the current government in Israel is anti semitic. There is though a very fine line between supporting the Palestinians and calling any Jewish people who either live in Israel, or support its right to exist, calling them nazi's - and being anti semitic.
How anyone can suggest calling out `Margaret Hodge or Ian Austen is beyond me. These are hard working Labour people. If they say they feel there is a problem with anti semitism within their own party, why shouldn't they be listened to, rather than subject to some internal disciplinary proceedings.
The use of the term Zio as abuse is widespread amongst many on the left. I know because I hear it used. The link between influential US Jewish people, business and money is used with no thought to the historical anti semitic accusations that Jews are money lenders, have more money than your average individual etc etc
I find the simplistic arguments from some on the left difficult to take. I'm opposed to any form of racist abuse or behaviour. I do believe Israel has a right to exist. Does that make me some kind of right wing extremist supporter of wealthy Jewish people who just long to oppress the Palestinians. Of course not.
I genuinely do not understand why the LP (my part for the past 50 years) felt the need to re-write the definition of anti semitism. My fear is, the need arose in order to enable many Momentum - similar - supporters to remain in the party without them facing the kind of disciplinary action its proposed is used against two Jewish MP's who lost family in the holocaust. Odd isn't it, that sensitivities only go so far.

But now they have the knives out for Ian Austin can they ignore Margaret. It all sounds too awful!

They seem to have got themselves mired in this controversy whilst Rome is burning on the opposite benches.

“Jeremy Corbyn is leading the Labour Party into a dark place of ugly conspiracies”

Just announced by the leader of The Board of Deputies of British Jews.

I dont believe the Holocaust is "a money cow" but I do believe the Israeli government use it as an excuse for their incredibly bad behaviour ..which I find odd.If I've suffered I dont want others to suffer in the same way ...do you?
With all the recent hysteria about Russia we should remember they lost over 4 times as many people in the second world war as the Jewish communities ...25 million is a conservative estimate.
Do we see Russia using that loss as an excuse for mistreating their next door neighbours...or for building walls and refusing them access to necessities?Yet the western world still fuels this paranoia about Russia while Israel can walk away time after time from UN resolutions with no punishment .Its bizarre .

Weak excuse trisher, very weak

niggly, I did wonder if they would go for Margaret Hodge, she is so liked and respected by fellow labour MP’s, hurting her may be that one step too far. But now they have the knives out for Ian Austin can they ignore Margaret .

It will be up to the new general secretary, ex lover of Len Mccluskey

Not visiting the Holocaust museum isn't not showing respect Annie perhaps he wasn't invited at a time that was convenient (Now why on earth would they do that?). Many Jews with family who died in the Holocaust have condemned the actions of the Israeli government and recognise how dreadfully the Palestinian people have been treated. If she disagrees with the agreed statement about anti-semitism MH will not only be opposing the party leader but the NEC as well. A case of she is the only person who really knows?

The problem is you cant appear to be PRO Palestinian or you are called out as anti semitic...which is a nonsense.The Israeli government treatment of Palestinians is a disgrace and largely ignored simply because folk dont want to appear to be anti semitic which they are not.That includes me !

annie, I am completely staggered that anybody could even think that of the holocaust, never mind say it!! Have these students even an inkling of how appalling it was? How
anyone in their right mind could talk about such a terrible period in such glib terms is shocking, to the point where I don't want to talk about it! No wonder Margaret Hodge is so upset! Do JC and his cohorts have any idea how cruel their comments are? She's to be disciplined?! Well, I'm speechless!!
Criticising the government of Israel is perfectly fine as it is with every government provided you live in a democracy!!
But to be vile to and about individuals who are connected to these countries in whatever respect is disgraceful as surely any right minded person would be aware! Why the constant debate? Why is that so difficult to understand?

Margaret has said she will remain in the party and fight against racism , she has principles and a love of the party which you wouldn’t understand trisher.

Corbyn refused to pay respect to those who died in the Holocaust, her grandmother was one as well as other family members. Do you too believe like those oxford students that the Holocaust is a money cow?

A 'loyal member of the Labour Party' who calls its leader anti-semitic Annie? Well you have to think either her principles are not important enough to her to cause her to resign (because surely if you truly believed a party was led by an anti-semite you would want to distance yourself from it) or that she was using the slur to try and undermine a leader she did not see eye to eye with. And as she hasn't resigned the latter would seem to be true.

Wrong Ilovecheese but it is used to defend Corbyn.

This thread is to condemn the anti semitism in the Labour Party and to support Margaret Hodge, a woman I admire and a loyal member of the Labour .party.

Perhaps you can explain why Corbyn attended a remembrance service for an IRA member but refused an invite to visit the Israel Holocaust Museum .

This is the man his devoted followers here claim he mixed with the IRA because he is a peacemaker who believes in speaking to all sides.

Of course anyone can criticise the Israeli government loudly and vehemently, but what they cannot do is make vile comments about its citizens or Jewish people generally, and people who do so should be thoroughly ashamed!

I agree with the sentiments expressed earlier by Niggly.

As there is an agreed definition, (even if not perfect to cover every circumstance), why is the LP taking it upon itself to redefine it? Wouldn't there have to be an internationally agreed redefinition?

"Those who dislike Corbyn will of course use this disagreement in definition to whip up the arguement without even trying to,understand the reasoning behind it,"

You have hit the nail on the head there OldMeg

That is what this whole thread is for.

Blinko can you answer my question then. Is it anti-semitic for a Palestinian to use a comparison with the Nazi treatment of Jews when speaking about how he and his family have suffered becuse of the Israeli government? The definition says it is, but shouldn't he be allowed to describe things as he sees them?

What a tirade. Think best if I just listen to reasoned discussion on Radio 4.

So what is happening in Gaza makes it acceptable to admire an anti semetic wall mural as Corbyn did, to claim over 100 countries are under orders from Israel and the U S .

trisher come off it, I posted several times of the shadow chancellors verbal attack on fellow MP’s, I didn’t ask you personally of your opinion on it, neither did I ask you personally about anti semetism in my O/P, you didn’t hesitate to give your opinion on this, but on calling decent labour MP’s f*****g losers ? Silence

Just been listening to a debate about this on Radio 4. What’s coming across loud and clear is that there is disagreement about the definition of antisemitism. It seems that disagreeing with the politics of the state of Israel can be read as antisemic. In which case that applies to me as I abhor the brutality and racism from people like Netanyahu.

Those who dislike Corbyn will of course use this disagreement in definition to whip up the arguement without even trying to,understand the reasoning behind it,

lemon I think the problem is not just with the LP. It is much wider and much more complicated and the LP have at least tried to deal with it. There is a growing feeling among some young people that the people of Palestine are being consistently ill treated and that this is being ignored by the international community, partly because of the power and influence Israel commands through its US connections. It is posssible that this will spill over into anti-semitism, which would be horrific. But one of the problems is that some consider it already has and site things like the boycott of M&S as an example of this. The only way to tackle this is to have an open and free discussion where all ideas can be shared, something the LP is trying consistently to do. And when it does is, ironically, accused of anti-semitism

These people are making a serious misjudgement (amongst others, it would seem) if they start using the system against respected, hard working MPs. Surely MPs must be able to express their concerns about how this is being handled?

I remain baffled as to why the LP can't simply adopt the generally held definition, and have done with it. Unless, as ab says, they are actually anti semitic. If that is indeed the case, then I think they have a problem.....

….but so does the country in terms of having a viable opposition.

Casting allegations about the Israel/Palestine situation is also a way of distracting from the very real situation of all the anti-semitism within the LP.

So you don’t think there is a problem within the LP at all
trisher?
Even Corbyn thinks there is, ( according to him)

Annie I wasn't asked about the shadow chancellor. And yes the definition has been adopted by over 100 countries not least because Israel and her US backers exert much pressure to get what they want. The situation in Gaza is appalling and casting allegations of anti-semitism is one way to detract interest from it and creat worries about speaking out about it.

How dreadful that Margaret Hodge was so distressed that she felt compelled to tackle JC in the way she did! That man should be apologising to her for distress caused not the other way round. A misunderstanding John McDonnell tells us on Today?!! A person of Margaret Hodges experience and intellect? I don't think so!
Of course anyone can criticise the Israeli government loudly and vehemently, but what they cannot do is make vile comments about its citizens or Jewish people generally, and people who do so should be thoroughly ashamed!