Labour Party and anti semitism

Speak for yourself Fennel! It’s on my Christmas list.

Not many people have a Caterpillar bulldozer on their shopping list.

Actually POGS the Boycott is far wider
The Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC) calls for a boycott of all Israeli products but we also target our boycotts to focus on a small number of companies and products for maximum impact. We focus on companies that play a clear and direct role in Israel’s crimes and where we think we can have an impact.
So one of the companies it is recommended to Boycott is Caterpillar

Caterpillar bulldozers are regularly used in the demolition of Palestinian homes and farms and in Israel’s massacres in Gaza.

OldMeg I was jumping ahead a bit before.
What I meant to say was the general Israeli kosher foods for sale in our supermarkets aren't very good quality. I wouldn't buy them.
But their fruit and veg are top quality and so more vulnerable. Apart from Jaffa oranges which mostly come from Spain for some reason.
Don't tell anyone.

A majority of 197 ? Oh well not even Corbyn can win em all

The Parliamentary Labour Party voted today on the adoption of the IHRA definition and examples word-for-word.

They voted in favour of fully adopting the international definition and examples of antisemitism.

They voted by 205 to 8 votes. It could be said by a majority .

In reality it may only be viewed as ' a message ' to the Leadership but it does at least send a message.

My understanding is unlike Tuesdays NEC vote and it's own ' added caveat/statement ' to the adoption of the IHRA also the reported refusal to adopt a ' personal caveat / statement ' proposed by Corbyn , the PLP vote has no ' added caveat / statement ' proposed '.

I think the addition of any caveat / statement no matter how trivial and most certainly a personal proposal by Corbyn to add one will be seen as the NEC adopting the IHRA but under sufferance.

Of course they do Fennel

"demand the removal of all Kosher goods on the 'supposition' they feel it is from Israel."
That is so stupid. As you say Pogs much of it is produced here, and a lot comes from the USA.
All fruit and veg. has to have country of origin marked.

That’s your interpretation, again, POGS but at least you’re willing to delve into this thorny question a bit more deeply than those who see it simply as a black and white debate such as the OP.

" Some of the undersigned organizations support BDS in full, others in part, and others have no formal position on BDS. We all affirm the current call for BDS as a set of tools and tactics that should not be defined as antisemitic."
-

BDS . The Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement .

The goods involved are those made in the occupied West Bank areas. How do they know which are made in the occupied territory?

Up to 2015 the European Union had a limited free trade agreement with Israel , not the West Bank goods I believe. The European Union does not recognize the occupied territories as part of Israel therefore goods from the occupied territory are not included in 'free' trade.. Two bodies evolved the EU Israel Council and the EU Israel Association Committee. The agreement fell apart in 2015 , as my understanding goes , as Israel doesn't want to conform with the European Court of Justice telling them that goods must be labelled where they are produced from.

It is a very messy business and I understand the voices that call for a boycott of occupied territory goods but the problem is the activism behind the so called boycott of occupied territory goods does not restrict itself to that area. It doesn't know so therefore anything Israeli is fair game hence the removal of goods from our supermarkets due to intimidation when the goods may have originated in the UK. I do not therefore agree with Israel Apartheid Week and boycotting anything and everything that is thought to be from Israel when there is no proof. Some behaviour by activists is tantamount to being anti Semetic behaviour if they demand the removal of all Kosher goods on the 'supposition' they feel it is from Israel. This includes Labour MP's who join them. They are not really interested in where it comes from it is Kosher that's all that matters. I do not like the BDS either irrespective of who belongs to it.

Because these are Jewish groups who understand where Corbyn and other concerned people is coming from. Surely that is obvious or are you going to call Jews anti-Semitic too?

I suspect the pressure of media highlighting POGS accept it and the problem will go away. The trouble is it won't. The people I know who are active in support of Palestine will regard it as a betrayal, real anti-semites will see a Jewish conspiracy, the reat of us will simply wonder.
As I have answered your question perhaps you will answer the one I keep posting about the IHRA. Why when a select committe of all party MPs recommended additional clauses did the government choose to ignore them?

Old Meg , trisher

Why do you think the Jeremy for Leader / Momentum NEC panel did not adopt Corbyns supplement to
The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition ?

Putting up a list in favour of Corbyn and against accepting The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition holds merit but only in as much as another list could be posted against Corbyn and accepting The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition .

The list could start by naming the 31 countries who have adopted The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition .

OldMeg thank you for that post. It was not only enlightening but moving. There is no doubt that the growing movement for supporting Palestine through economic measures such as boycotting goods is regarded with fear in some quarters. It was after all a large part of the measures which put an end to apartheid. Labelling those who want to introduce such things as anti-semites is worrying. That there is support for them from Jews and Israeli citizens is encouraging. One can only hope that freedom of speech and action survives.

OldMeg - absolutely agree with your comment. It's not to do with concern about Labour's anti-semitism. It is just being used to try to manipulate public opinion.

However because of simplistic politically and media led claims of anti-semitism, a man who cares deeply about the cause of the Palestinian people has been wrongly labelled.

Zionists are strong lobbyists and take the gullible along with them.

If you still think Jeremy Corbyn is anti-Semitic thenread this and note who has signed it.

Attacks on Jeremy Corbyn and Labour Party
Jewish Voice for Peace Board of Trustees Responds to Attacks on Jeremy Corbyn and Labour Party
In "Press Release"

First ever: 40+ Jewish groups worldwide oppose equating antisemitism with criticism of Israels social justice organizations from around the world, we write this letter with growing alarm regarding the targeting of organizations that support Palestinian rights in general and the nonviolent Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, in particular. These attacks too often take the form of cynical and false accusations of antisemitism that dangerously conflate anti-Jewish racism with opposition to Israel’s policies and system of occupation and apartheid.

We live in a frightening era, with growing numbers of authoritarian and xenophobic regimes worldwide, foremost among them the Trump administration, allying themselves with Israel’s far right government while making common cause with deeply antisemitic and racist white supremacist groups and parties.

From our own histories we are all too aware of the dangers of increasingly fascistic and openly racist governments and political parties. The rise in antisemitic discourse and attacks worldwide is part of that broader trend.

At times like this, it is more important than ever to distinguish between the hostility to or prejudice against Jews on the one hand and legitimate critiques of Israeli policies and system of injustice on the other.

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism, which is increasingly being adopted or considered by western governments, is worded in such a way as to be easily adopted or considered by western governments to intentionally equate legitimate criticisms of Israel and advocacy for Palestinian rights with antisemitism, as a means to suppress the former.

This conflation undermines both the Palestinian struggle for freedom, justice and equality and the global struggle against antisemitism. It also serves to shield Israel from being held accountable to universal standards of human rights and international law.

We urge our governments, municipalities, universities and other institutions to reject the IHRA definition and instead take effective measures to defeat white supremacist nationalist hate and violence and to end complicity in Israel’s human rights violations. Israel does not represent us and cannot speak for us when committing crimes against Palestinians and denying their UN-stipulated rights.

The Nobel Peace Prize-nominated, Palestinian civil society-led BDS movement for Palestinian rights has demonstrated an ongoing proven commitment to fighting antisemitism and all forms of racism and bigotry, consistent with its dedication to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Some of the undersigned organizations support BDS in full, others in part, and others have no formal position on BDS. We all affirm the current call for BDS as a set of tools and tactics that should not be defined as antisemitic.

Signed:

Academia4equality (Israel)

Arbeter Ring/Workmen’s Circle, Southern California

Boycott from Within (Israeli citizens for BDS)

Coalition of Women for Peace (Israel)

Collectif Judéo Arabe et Citoyen pour la Palestine (France)

Dayenu: New Zealand Jews Against Occupation (New Zealand)

Een Ander Joods Geluid (A Different Jewish Voice) (The Netherlands)

Een Andere Joodse Stem – Another Jewish Voice (Flanders, Belgium)

European Jews for a Just Peace

Free Speech on Israel (UK)

Gate48 – critical Israelis in the Netherlands

Independent Jewish Voices (Canada)

Independent Jewish Voices (UK)

International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network

Italian Network of Jews Against the Occupation

Jewish Anti-Fascist Action Berlin (Germany)

Jewish Socialists’ Group (UK)

Jewish Voice for Democracy and Justice in Israel/Palestine (Switzerland)

Jewish Voice For Labour (UK)

Jewish Voice for Peace (USA)

Jewish Voice for Peace members in London (UK)

Jews Against Fascism (Australia)

Jews against the Occupation (Australia)

Jews for Justice for Palestinians (UK)

Jews for Palestinian Right of Return (USA)

Jews of Color & Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews in Solidarity w/ Palestine (USA)

Jews Say No! (USA)

JIPF – Judar för Israelisk Palestinsk Fred (Sweden)

Jüdische Stimme für gerechten Frieden im Nahost e.V. (Germany)

Junts, Associació Catalana de Jueus i Palestins (Catalonia, Spain)

Los Otros Judíos (Argentina)

Manchester Jewish Action for Palestine (UK)

Quebrando Muros – Judeus Brasileiros Pela Descolonização da Palestina (Brazil)

Scottish Jews Against Zionism

SEDQ Network- A Global Jewish Network for Justice

South African Jewish Voices for a Just Peace (South Africa)

South African Jews for a Free Palestine (South Africa)

Union des progressistes juifs de Belgique (Saint-Gilles, Belgium)

United Jewish People’s Order (Canada)

Union Juive Française pour la Paix (France)

Boston Workmen’s Circle, Center for Jewish Culture and Social Justice

I think some of the assertions on here are more 'opinion' rather than proven evidenced fact. Even on the links.

The comment by JC re irony was in a particular context referring only to the particular people present. It was not a slur on all Jews or anti Semitic. One can criticise individual people, who are Jewish, for their actions, attitudes or behaviour as you can any one. That is not anti-Semitic. You cannot be critical of them BECAUSE they are Jewish. It is possible for a Jewish person to be e.g. a political extremist, stupid, very clever, ordinary etc, just as it is for anyone. To perceive Jewish people as a homogenous group is in itself rather anti Semitic.

Corbyn wanted the NEC to add ‘ racist comments against Israel was allowed’

The Labour leader had wanted to include a statement that said: “It should not be considered anti-Semitic to describe, Israel, its policies or the circumstances around its foundation as racist because of their discriminatory impact.” (Financial Times)

This amused me

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-creator-and-writer-of-yes-minister-jonathan-lynn-criticises-corbyn-for-english-irony-1.469175

Corbyn wanted the NEC to add ‘ racist comments against Israel was allowed’

Day6 that makes the whole issue too simple. The young people who sent me that message are passionate and knowledgable about human rights. One of the reasons I stay in touch with them is because they have sometimes told me stories about civil rghts activism that isn't in the history books. They reject the wording of the IHRA definition on very good grounds and what should happen is a dialogue with them to find a compromise. They do not hate anyone. They find the actions of Israel unacceptable that is totally different to hating people.

While I can see people have issues with the Israeli government, that's understandable and acceptable, but to hate an individual person because they either come from Israel or are associated by religion is absolutely horrible.

Agreed Niggly and spot on.

It's incredible in this day an age that hatred 'by association' is alive and kicking in the Labour party. The fact that members cannot seem to bring themselves, unless forced to do so, to incorporate the wording of internationally acceptable definitions of anti semitism is breathtakingly awful. I agree that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is complex and there have been atrocities on both sides, but the situation within the party should have been cleared up long ago so that claims of anti semitism in the ranks never raised its ugly head.

What is really worrying is the silence from the back and front benches. There must be many fair-minded Labour MPs who find the situation intolerable but dare not speak up.

Momentum hold training days around the country , no doubt history will be rewritten. It was at a training day that the former vice chair of Momentum and a founding member of Jewish Voice for Labour, said she didn’t know what the definition of anti semetism was. Her father was a Jew and a member of the communist party.n

this re defining is to protect Corbyn for things he has said in the past, and the many things his followers are saying in the present.