Exit from Brexit

MaizieD
My post wasn't saying that it potentially could not be done but it currently is not a legal option and would require the EU 27 to review and amend A50 to enable this, which they may or may not be in a mind to do so. The alternative would be to leave and then reapply tor membership.

Here he is saying it:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/brexit-date-is-not-irreversible-says-man-who-wrote-article-50-lord-kerr

(Apologies,he was a diplomat, not a lawyer. But it makes no difference; he wrote it, he knows how it works)

I don't think that's what the British lawyer who wrote A50 says. It can be revoked or extended with the consent of the EU27 is my understanding.

The triggering of Article 50 starts an automatic exit process. EU law is silent on the revoking of Article 50 therefore the EU stance is that the UK is leaving.
UK cannot now unilaterally decide that it has made a mistake and revoke article 50.
As there is no precedent for this it would be probable that the remaining 27 would have to amend statute and then vote on this so no matter how many more referendums are called for, it would basically be up to the 27 other EU states to determine whether U.K. stays in the EU or not.

Would the referendum result have been advisory and non binding if the result had been remain?

Had the result been reversed with the same percentages a sensible government would have had a long hard think about why so many people were dissatisfied; as indeed, they really should have done with the actual result, instead of rushing headlong to invoke A50 without any plan at all as to how withdrawal was going to be managed and what a realistic outcome would be.

Such a high dissatisfaction level could have been used for further negotiations with the EU. It might also have suggested to the government that they look at their own policies, particularly the ridiculous and unnecesary 'austerity' policy.

Of course, being tories that was really unlikely to have happened as tories don't seem to be given to reflection on the effects of their actions. But one can dream..

Realistically, Cameron would have heaved a huge sigh of relief and continued to bring the country to its knees. Farage would have made a great deal of noise, as might have other Leavers. Because that is everyone's democratic right. To disagree with government policy and to seek to influence it in fresh directions.

Yes, and it was said at the time of signing article 50 that the leave negotiations would be the easiest ever concluded. That had proved to have been a statement very far from the truth.

Therefore, whatever comes as a deal or no deal the electorate should once again have the final say in accepting that situation or not.

Fennel
Would the referendum result have been advisory and non binding if the result had been remain?
The fact that Parliament voted to invoke article 50 and both major political parties included their ideas on facilitating the referendum within their election manifesto's makes one wonder Why don't others accept it?

Varian wrote (again)
"Under UK law the referendum result is advisory and not binding on Parliament".
I've written the same thing a few times too.
Why don't others accept it?

Under UK law the referendum result is advisory and not binding on Parliament, a large majority of whose members are opposed to leaving the EU.

As the constitutional lawyer Geoffrey Robertson QC points out: ‘Democracy in Britain doesn’t mean majority rule. It’s not the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the mob…It’s the representatives of the people, not the people themselves who vote for them.’

It is only when elected MPs vote in favour of a new bill to repeal the 1972 legislation that brought Britain into Europe that Article 50 can be invoked and divorce proceedings begin in earnest.

And that is unlikely to happen until after the Conservative party has elected a new prime minister who, in all probability, would call a general election to confirm the authority of parliament to vote on such a crucial issue.

The main opposition party, Labour, has already made moves to remove its leader, Jeremy Corbyn, on the grounds of his weak support of the party’s pro-European stance during the referendum campaign. And the Scottish Nationalists are likely to demand a new referendum on Independence should their country’s overwhelmingly pro-European vote be overruled by Brexit.

So no irretrievable move by Britain to leave the EU is likely to happen before this fall. Apart from anything else, the UK has virtually no trained negotiators to do a new deal with Europe or, indeed, other trading partners around the world, as everything has been done through the EU for the past 40 years.

www.gfmag.com/topics/blogs/uk-could-exit-brexit

I find it difficult Annie to see Jeremy Corbyn joining Vince Cable and the other sensible pro-remain MPs.

He was ostensibly a remainer before the referendum but, like Theresa May, kept his head down and did virtually mo campaigning. Since then he seems to have gone over to the dark side. I have absolutely no faith in Corbyn ever doing the right thing. He is a huge disappointment to me as I know he is to you.

If Corbyn joined with Cable ?

Sadly we will probably go ahead with Brexit unless Parliament has the collective courage to either cancel it or call a second referendum.

Despite Dominic Raab putting a brave face on it negotiations are failing to resolve the Irish question or give a guarantee that trade with Europe will be realistically viable after Brexit.

Good advice Lemongrove

waiting and seeing... not such a bad idea is it? Nit picking about every face that Barnier pulls and trying to construe it was always a waste of time.We have had two years of that on GN and the media, as POGS has stated.
How about nobody says anything until the end of October, they may then find something concrete to talk about.

Credit where it is due; Raab spent more time today with Barnier than David Davis did in 6 months. Has to be helpful one would think.

Oh dear POGS, have you exhausted your typing finger? Or is there a way of repeating yourself easily??

Did anybody catch the latest news conference from Barnier and Raab a few minutes ago? It was on Sky News but the BBC did not show it live.

It is looking a little more promising when Barnier says :

The EU is prepared to build an ambitious partnership with the Uniuted Kingdom "

They covered various subjects and whatever side of the argument you fall on it may hold some answers to the questions that have been ongoing , daily for 2 years now.

Don’t worry when it goes t*ts up leavers will blame the EU as they blame them for everything.

Are leavers lining up their scapegoats so that they don’t have to face the possibility that they may have backed the wrong horse.

This twitter thread might be apposite here:

I'm often asked, Where are we on Brexit and where is it likely to go?

The outcome of the process will be dictated by the interaction of the various players and their motivations...

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1034465277684195333.html

Stitch us up in what way? and who is 'us'?

What's logic got to do with this, Bridgeit

No a Remainer PM is more likely to stitch us up but hopefully she won't be leader for long.

Logic would say that a remainer conducting the leave process is a good thing.
A remainer is surely going to be more inclined to have a sensible negotiating head on than a leader who is hell bent on leaving no matter what.

So they might, Petra, but so might you if they don't.