Exit from Brexit

The market’s sharp reaction to the UK referendum result, the record plunge in sterling and a sharp sell-off in both London and other European stock markets, has been based on the assumption that Britain is definitely going to leave the European Union and all that’s left to discuss are the terms of the divorce settlement.

But Brexit has not yet happened, and there can be no certainty that it ever will.

www.gfmag.com/topics/blogs/uk-could-exit-brexit

UK holidaymakers heading to Europe this summer just suffered a blow.

The pound has weakened against the euro to its lowest level since last November, meaning trips across the channel have become a little more expensive.

Sterling fell as low as €1.1129, down 0.25% today.

www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/aug/08/us-china-trade-war-pound-euro-brexit-oil-business-live?page=with:block-5b6aacf9e4b038d7c3b15dd7#block-5b6aacf9e4b038d7c3b15dd7

Varian sorry I put a link on my last post. It has nothing to do with your post...well not directly although it is explaining every aspect simply of the common terms used in Brexit.

I found it easy to read and informative but not meant for you post. Anyone interested though it is a good explanation of every thing Brexit by category, like, hard border, regulatory rules, free trade agreements etc etc.

ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-is-a-free-trade-agreement/

Varian at time your words are so full of 'bile' that my heart goes out to you. I want to be cross with you, but something jumps across the screen and it makes me think that you are sat on the other side wanting and hoping that your words will hurt. They don't.

Your bile even extends to those who will never know your intensity. As highlighted below:

Sadly too many of them have since been bullied by the right-wing media and their party leaders into putting aside their own better judgement and feebly following the lying leaver campaign, although they must know that any kind of brexit is likely to inflict untold damage on their constituents and the UK as a whole.

Lets take a look at their party leaders^whom you say have ^bullied into putting aside their own better judgement.

In the General Election, these MP's stood on a Party mandate a Pro Brexit party mandate, they were elected or re-elected on that mandate, many in constituencies who voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU at the Referendum. What those MP's personally voted at the Referendum is irrelevant, if they are voted in on a Pro Brexit mandate. Therefore their Party Leaders, have every right to expect that MP's will honour their Party's promises to the public and theirs by standing on that mandate for election their own constituents.

To honour their promises is not as you put it feebly done, it is a brave and honourable thing to do. Honour and sticking by ones word is admirable, not feeble.

As for your acidic comment "lying leaver campaign", well Varian I refer you to my first sentence.

ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/what-is-a-free-trade-agreement/

Can someone please explain this paragraph from the linked article:
It is only when elected MPs vote in favour of a new bill to repeal the 1972 legislation that brought Britain into Europe that Article 50 can be invoked and divorce proceedings begin in earnest.

I was under the impression that Article 50 was invoked over a year ago. On 29th March 2017 to be exact.

I think a lot of MP's had their ambitious sights on lucrative positions in the EU. Nothing like the promise of a bit of importance and financial reward to convert the most ardent eurosceptic whatever their political colour.

Good point Joelsan!

Allygran posted "Yes of course MamaCaz your right the majority did declare for Remain, pretty close, but still the majority, however their constituents didn't and that is all that matters."

75% Remain to 25% Leave is not "pretty close", especially when we are told that 48.1% Remain to 51.9% Leave was " a decisive majority"

Since Ally gran has told us she is not stupid, we can only conclude that her post re MPs is a deliberate attempt to mislead anyone who does not bother to check the facts.

The MPs were, of course far, far better informed than the majority of their constituents, which is why they voted overwhelmingly to Remain. The result was never "pretty close".

Sadly too many of them have since been bullied by the right-wing media and their party leaders into putting aside their own better judgement and feebly following the lying leaver campaign, although they must know that any kind of brexit is likely to inflict untold damage on their constituents and the UK as a whole.

I will still be lurking on here, MaizieD, and silently supporting you. Of course, there might be times when the urge to counter some ridiculous claims becomes too strong for me to resist,
But bye for now

Perhaps, Joelsnan you could start a counter petition and see how many signatures you get on that...

MamaCaz Sorry to see you go...I'll miss you

I typed my own reply earlier to Allygran's last two posts, but it never appeared. However, varian and MaizieD have made the points that I wanted to make, and much better than I would have done.

Now I am going to withdraw from this and any similar Brexit threads until such time as there is something new to be said. Life is just too short to waste any more of it in this way.

Only 250,000 signatures, what about the 45 million that didn't vote?

I signed quite a while ago, thanks humptydumpty.

More than 250,000 signatures now.

Of course in the General Election, every MP Conservative or Labour stood for re-election or election on their party mandates and both Party's were for Brexit. This as far as I am concerned means that all MP's in both Government and Opposition party's are obliged to support Brexit,

You just go ahead and cling on to your illusions, Ally. It's my reading of the GE that it had very little to do with Brexit but with the rather more important issue of how the UK is to be run. Voters disliked the tory vision of this so much that May lost the tory's comfortable majority and only clung on to power by bribing the DUP to support her (and lying to the Queen in the process..)

If Brexit came into it at all we could also read the result as the electorate not much caring for May's version.

I would urge anyone who wants to have a second referendum before it's to late to sign the People's Vote petition (if you haven't already):

www.peoples-vote.uk/people_s_vote_petition_smashes_targets_with_over_125_000_signatures_in_48_hours

Pretty close????

Most members of the House of Commons are believed to have voted Remain in the EU referendum. According to a survey of all 650 MPs carried out by the Press Association ahead of the referendum on June 23:

:: 480 MPs said they would be voting Remain, including 184 Conservatives

:: 159 MPs said they would be voting Leave, including 139 Conservatives

:: 11 MPs were undeclared, including four Conservatives

This gives Remain a notional Commons majority of at least 310.

home.bt.com/news/uk-news/how-mps-voted-in-the-eu-referendum-11364110245462

Yes of course MamaCaz your right the majority did declare for Remain, pretty close, but still the majority, however their constituents didn't and that is all that matters. Of course in the General Election, every MP Conservative or Labour stood for re-election or election on their party mandates and both Party's were for Brexit. This as far as I am concerned means that all MP's in both Government and Opposition party's are obliged to support Brexit, otherwise in my view they are taking their wages under false pretences, and not representing their Constituents who voted them in on a Brexit mandate. There are a lot of issues here, that will not easily be forgotten by the voters at the next GE for those MP's who have deceived them.

However, there seem to be a lot of MP's who have changed their stance on the EU in this way once in a position of power. You were not talking about the majority in your earlier post MamaCaz, just "a lot" and I am sure that the "majority" don't either change their stance, or engage in self interest activities, legitimate though they may be. Some of course will and do.

I doubt that the majority of MPs do any of those things though, Allygran. They are too busy with day-to-day constituency business when not attending Parliament. Yet the majority of MPs wanted to remain in the EU.

Even Owen Jones, that doyen of the remainers believes the vote would be even higher if there was another vote.
Ally
He had plans to be the president of the commission. But then he had his 'vision' to invade Iraq, that blotted his copy book

Once in a position of power some MP's realise that consultancy fees and speech fees, travel expenses and accommodation in the best hotels in Europe and around the world whilst on "trade missions", are lucrative. That can turn some people's heads, heart's and minds.

Bridgiet how would you 'stop it'? I take that to mean Brexit.

That is a gem of a find Petra. Clearly on the road to Brussels he realised his path was paved with Euro's!

I am no supporter of Blair, and never have been. However, there seem to be a lot of MP's who have changed their stance on the EU in this way once in a position of power. Perhaps that is because once they are privy to all the details, they have realized that the outlook for our country is better in than out.
Just a thought!

I've just been reading up on some stuff when I stumbled on this gem.
This is from the Labour Party manifesto but spoken by Tony Blair.
"We will negotiate a withdrawal from the EEC which has drained our natural resources and destroyed jobs
Then, he obviously had a conversion on the road to Brussels because in 2003 in the eu parliament he said:
"I am a passionate pro European, always have been"