Exit from Brexit

The big difference between the election of Trump and the result of the referendum is that Clinton actually received more votes than Trump but he won more states.

At least with the referendum it was the majority of individual votes that won the day. Whatever the FBI discover, it wont invalidate the election of Trump, they wont have another presidential election.

An investigation into the referendum may well uncover Russian interference but wouldn't necessitate another vote. You cannot possibly measure how much of a difference was made. You cannot prove that if not for Russian interference, if any were found, a significant number of leavers would have voted remain and altered the final result.

"An army of Russian trolls sent thousands of messages with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU on the day of Britain's referendum on membership of the EU, according to new data released by Twitter.

The FBI have actually been active in investigating Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election unlike our spineless and gutless government who daren't let the UK prosecuting authorities investigate anything which might call into question the validity of the referendum result and have isssued their first indictment.

The subject is a female Russian National and she's being indicted for 'Conspiracy to defraud the US'.

The indictment can be downloaded from here and it makes eye opening reading for those who care about democracy and honesty in politics.

www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/russian-national-charged-interfering-us-political-system

This twitter comment puts its contents in a nutshell!

Can I also just say: holy sh*t FBI! Look at the amount of detail in the indictment. They have her complete budget. Her FB ad spends. The accounts involved. The talking points. Everything. They have: EVERYTHING.

twitter.com/saradannerdukic/status/1053405715417780229

And that's just the first one....

Perhaps he made them a lot of promises …..
They'll learn

Probably the title Jalimall 'Sir Nick Clegg'What a joke and an insult to those who deserve the title.

Sir Nick Clegg POGS
Yes, interesting petra
(Was it the title or the EU links that persuaded them?)

It really is quite pathetic, this constant sniping and insulting those who have a different point of view

I agree Smileless

For goodness sake varian give it a rest. I occasionally read the DM, don't go on FB or receive tweets and I wasn't brainwashed anymore than you were.

It really is quite pathetic, this constant sniping and insulting those who have a different point of view. Who voted for Brexit because they believed it was the best thing for the country.

Is this the best you can do? If you're so convinced that you're right why don't you try to put forward your argument in a respectful way or have you been so brainwashed by those promoting EU membership that you're unable to do so.

Crystaltipps
He's milking the 'public speaking' circuit, if you can call that work. Then there's his €70,000 ( non contributory) eu pension.

Well Nick Clegg hasn’t got another job has he?

Petra

I thought Nick Ckegg taking the job at facebook was priceless .

Almost as amusing as the reports Julian Assange is suing the
Equadorian Embassy .

Couldn't make it up.

I see that man of principle, Nick Clegg has taken the Facebook shilling, does he have no shame?
Obviously nothing to do with the eu trying to get more tax from the big boys and NC knowing an awful lot of people in Brussels just saying.

Do you seriously think Jalima that any leave voter who thought they had made up their own mind how to vote would willingly admit that they were brainwashed, or even influenced by the right-wing media?

Years of reading the Telegraph, Daily Mail, Express or The Sun, listening to the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation or receiving tweets and Facebook messages from Russian trolls or Cambridge Analytica did not influence any of them - of course not!!!!

The 'trolls', Jalima didn't exactly go around identifying themselves as trolls; they were signed up to social media as if they were real people. So no-one is going to know if they were influenced by trolls or not.

(Of course, I realise that no Leaver, ever, on Gransnet was influenced by anything other than their own rigorous research. Nor are they ever influenced by advertising..)

How many people were influenced by these 'trolls' in their decision-making?

I don't know anyone who has ever mentioned it before and I know quite a number of thinking people who did vote to leave.

You don't know that varian that many of the 26% who voted leave "believed the lies of the Leave campaign".

I respect your enthusiasm and passion for remaining a part of the EU, you make some salient and informative posts on the subject and the links you provide are well worth reading, but your constant sniping at those who voted leave, undermines your argument.

Those who voted to leave were influenced by many forces in the media who had their own agenda.

Even the Telegraph, owned by tax-exiles and relentlessly promoting right-wing causes, has now admitted that-

"An army of Russian trolls sent thousands of messages with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU on the day of Britain's referendum on membership of the EU, according to new data released by Twitter.

On 23 June 2016, the day of the Brexit vote, Russia mobilised an army of trolls, which at one stage included 3,800 accounts. The fake accounts Tweeted out 1,102 posts with the hashtag #ReasonsToLeaveEU.

The Russian-linked accounts Tweeted out the phrase “Brexit” more than 4,400 times during its period of activity, although mostly after the referendum had taken place.

The data from Twitter showed Russian and Iranian internet trolls sent more than 10 million Tweets in an effort to spread disinformation and discord in the West, including a day-long blitz on the day of the Brexit vote.

Russian “troll factory” the Internet Research Agency and a separate group of Iranian hackers used networks of Twitter accounts to spread divisive information, according to a new database released by the social network."

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/10/17/russian-iranian-twitter-trolls-sent-10-million-tweets-fake-news/

26% of the UK population voted for tbis nonsense and many of tboze believed the lies of the Leave campaign.

The EU referendum was won because the majority voted for Brexit varian.

So true Jalima

I didn’t have much time for John Major when he was pm , but he is proving to be much more of a statesman than the current bunch of numpties
Interesting, isn't it crystaltipps
Ditto Gordon Brown

The EU referendum was won through fraud, the whistleblower Christopher Wylie has told MPs, accusing Vote Leave of improperly channelling money through a tech firm with links to Cambridge Analytica.

Wylie told a select committee that the pro-Brexit campaign had a “common plan” to use the network of companies to get around election spending laws and said he thought there “could have been a different outcome had there not been, in my view, cheating”.

“It makes me so angry, because a lot of people supported leave because they believe in the application of British law and British sovereignty. And to irrevocably alter the constitutional settlement of this country on fraud is a mutilation of the constitutional settlement of this country.”

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/27/brexit-groups-had-common-plan-to-avoid-election-spending-laws-says-wylie

Why on earth should any of us accept that we should "respect" the result of a referendum won by lies and fraud?

I didn’t have much time for John Major when he was pm , but he is proving to be much more of a statesman than the current bunch of numpties . Here is a quote from him- “I understand the motives of those who voted to leave the European Union: it can – as I well know – be very frustrating. Nonetheless, after weighing its frustrations and opportunities, there is no doubt in my own mind that our decision is a colossal misjudgment that will diminish both the UK and the EU. It will damage our national and personal wealth, and may seriously hamper our future security. It may even, over time, break up our United Kingdom. It will most definitely limit the prospects of our young.
And – once this becomes clear – I believe those who promised what will never be delivered will have much to answer for. They persuaded a deceived population to vote to be weaker and poorer. That will never be forgotten – nor forgiven.”

On the question of brexit, I certainly do agree with John Major. Our place in the world is as a significant member of the EU.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with John Major then, varian?

I thought that fervent remainers were not happy about closer links with America, particularly closer trading links.

I don't think we are particularly unusual in that we all read, listened and thought carefully before making a decision one way or the other.